Berry's Plated / Load advice

[Timothy]

Having a brain cramp here!
Generally, for a given weight bullet the powder charge is greater for a jacketed bullet than for a lead bullet. Correct? If so, one could use lead data for jacketed but not jacketed data for lead. Agree?
Now, my question: Do I use lead or jacketed data for Berry's Plated bullets?
I just recieved my first Berry's plated...124gr FP in 9mm and 135gr RS in 10mm. My powder inventory is 231, WST, SR4756, Bullseye, and Power Pistol.
Anyone care to share what works best for them.

Thanks in advance

 

[Ktulu]

Don't know about lead versus jacketed. A quick look in a reloading manual would probably clear that up.

Safest bet might be to contact the bullet manufacture and find out what they recommend.


I can tell you about the Berry's 9mm 115 grain RN.

Win231, 1.145" COL, CCI 500, 5" 1911

4.2 g = 1034.6 fps
4.4 g = 1081.9 fps
4.6 g = 1127.9 fps
4.8 g = 1169.6 fps
5.0 9 = 1194.2 fps

 

[larryw]

I use lead data for plated bullets in 357, 44 and 45ACP.

The plating is a thin, soft copper washed coating over what's usually a very soft lead core; these don't behave anything like a hard brass jacketed bullet.

Plated bullets also don't work too well under higher pressures and velocities (plating peels off the lead core like a banana), thus it makes sense to keep the charges lower.

 

[RON in PA]

Seems to me that manufacturers of plated bullets recommend using the same data as lead bullets as well as recommending restricting velocity.

They do have web sites.

 

[caz223]

Rainier's site has some loading data that may be relevant....

http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm

They seem to seat their bullets a bit long....

 

[8ring]

Using lead load data for West Coast plated 38 spc. gave about 120-150 fps lower velocity than the same loads with hard-cast lead bullets. The same velocity difference holds true for equal loads with .357 plated vs. .357 lead bullets.

Plated bullets are harder than lead and softer than jacketed. The plating is several thousands of an inch thick and is not like the copper wash seen on .22 LR.

CZ Forum has useful load data for 9mm plated bullets (Berry's, Rainer, and West Coast). Right now I'm using 5.0 - 5.2 grains of Winchester Super Target under a 9mm 124gr West Coast RN. I'm a beginner, but it shoots softer than Titegroup, is very clean, and meters very consistently.

Midway Load MAPs (Maximum Allowable Pressure) have a number of loads for plated bullets in 9mm, .357, and .45 ACP. Check Midway's site for more details.

 

[MoNsTeR]

Most people say use lead. I lean more towards jacketed. There's precious little evidence either way as to which is more appropriate.
As long as you're not pushing the ragged edge, either should be fine. (WARNING: following my advice could get you killed, blah blah blah.)

 

[larryw]

Brinell hardness of the copper plating is roughly 35 and the cores of the plated bullets a buddy tested for me were 9 for Berry's and 12 for West Coast. The hardness of jacket material is about 140. Hardcast bullets are 20-24.

Granted, there are other issues like friction that come into effect, but these numbers will give you an idea how the bullet will obturate.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I use West Coast bullets exclusively. Someone on one of these forums said they had sectioned West Coast, Berry, Rainier and found WC plating thickest. I cannot vouch for that. WC are double strike like the Rainier.

With WSP primers and Starline brass I have found that it is best to start with a high lead load and work up. In trying for 850fps to 900 fps in 158 gr RN .38 spl I find I am using the top end or above for lead loads listed in the Speer manual.

Can't testify to the exact speeds as I've had strange results: the speeds are HIGHER in my 4" M66 vs my 6" 686+ and 5" 627. Surprised the heck out of me. Maybe the M66 is tighter on BC gap, etc.

In the .357 magnum I worked up a load of AA7 with my standard 158 gr RN that is less than the max listed in the Lymans manual and less than the jacketed load in Speers (no lead load). At 11.2 gr I got over 1300 fps and, not being the most knowledgeable handloader in the world, could not decide whether primer deformation indicated a stopping point and stopped there. I do not believe the bullets were damaged at this velocity, but do not have conlusive information on that.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

How long have plated bullets been around? You would think there would be a lot more information.

My Lee dies came with a large list of loads which with the 45, also included plated information which is very disconcerting...

All 45 ACP 230 grain with AA#5
Lead 7.7 to 8.5 grains

Jacketed 7.8 to 8.7 grains

And Plated 7.6 to 8.5 grains

Not much difference there.

I just load like lead unless the manufacturer lists some different information.

 

[Zak Smith]

My standard 9mm load is a 124gr West Coast plated RN with 4.2gr of Titegroup seated to 1.130" nominal (in practice it varies +/- 0.010" based on rim dimension).

This is pretty mild at about 1060fps. It has headroom to be kicked up a couple notches, but 4.2gr is accurate and enough to run all the guns I've tried it in.

-z

 

[shu]

yeah, major bummer. i like plated bullets because of the cost but (with exception of Rainier, thank you very much!) niether plated manufacturers nor precision plastic coated seem willing to recommend loads.

my guess is that the makers are comfortable with their level of sales without taking on the liability of recommending loads. the powder manufacturers likewise avoid the subject.

i have seen it recommended both to 'use data for lead bullets' and 'use data for jacketed bullets.' my thinking is that (hard) copper jacketed bullets have more friction in the barrel, so would take a lower powder charge to stay below max pressure, except that lead bullets are usually restricted to <1000fps to avoid leading the barrel.

so i try to find a single source (e.g. speer #13) which lists both lead and jacketed bullets of the same weight with same powder. if the jacketed data shows higher powder loads and velocities than for same weight of lead, then i feel safe starting in upper half of the powder load for lead, watching the chronometer as i work up.