Best Ammo Weight for a 9mm with a 3 inch Barrel?

[Walkalong]

Here are some velocity comparisons in a 3", 4 1/2" & 16" barrel. These are three selected good loads from previous testing.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Interesting, I didn't know that. That is so strange given the old timer's emphasis on stopping power and dislike of anything smaller than .45 You'd think they would have tried to load it hotter.

Ben86,

I am sure they would have if their legal advisers didn't tell them otherwise. Everyone is working hard to liability-proof themselves in this excessively litigious age we live in. This is why few domestic makers produce true +P ammo anymore. You can still get it from makers like Corbon, DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore, etc, but the big 3 are a no-go. All of their +P is basically just a normal 9mm load.

 

[Kymasabe]

Use what works best.

I'd suggest you try a few different loads and brands and settle on what works best for your gun. For example: years ago I had a Taurus 9mm that shot low all the time with 115's. I switched to 124's and point of impact came up a little. Went to 147's and it was perfect. Heavier/slower bullet got to ride the recoil for a fraction of a second longer and brought POI up. So, again, try them all and use what works best.

Personally, my "best" happens to be 124 gr. Gold Dots.

 

[Ben86]

All of their +P is basically just a normal 9mm load.

Does that mean the only true +P is what is labeled +P+?

 

[LiveLife]

Here are some velocity comparisons in a 3", 4 1/2" & 16" barrel. These are three selected good loads from previous testing.

Walkalong, thanks for the data.

60-85 FPS average reduction with up to 100 FPS drop is almost 9% reduction in velocity between the 4.5" and 3" barrels.

N340 produced the fastest average velocity of 1135 FPS in your comparison - as the article below indicates, as close to 1200+ FPS we can get, it is better for the 9mm, especially shot from short 3" barrel.



Here's an except from Massad Ayoob's article that talks about 9mm bullet weight effectiveness and the reason why I prefer the 124/125 gr 9mm bullet over the 115/147 gr - http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html

This resulted in the FBI Wound Ballistics Workshop of 1988 in Quantico, Virginia. Among those present were Dr. Martin Fackler, head of wound ballistics research for the US Army’s medical training center, Letterman Institute. Fackler had developed an improved ballistic gelatin model that he had scientifically correlated to swine muscle tissue, which in turn is comparable to human muscle tissue. He hypothesized that wound depth was much more important than previously thought, and recommended ammunition that could send a bullet at least twelve inches into his ballistic gelatin.

The FBI agreed. By this point, the 9mm semiautomatic pistol had ascended to dominance over the six-shot service revolver in the police world, and the FBI adopted a heavy, slow moving 9mm bullet that weighed 147 grains and traveled at a subsonic velocity of less than 1000 feet per second.

Even this did not work terribly well. The bullet often went deep, but also frequently failed to expand reliably, and penetrated too far. Most departments that adopted it were so disappointed in the street results that they either changed ammunition or went to more powerful pistols.

Meanwhile, in a classic example of the Experiential Model, Detroit homicide detective Evan Marshall had begun a collection of thousands of police gunfight reports, and attempted to rate the stopping power of the ammunition used based on what actually happened in gunfights. He was soon joined by ballistic researcher Ed Sanow. In a separate study commissioned by the Police Marksman Association, Richard Fairburn analyzed gunfights submitted to his data base by various agencies, and his results were almost identical to those of Marshall and Sanow in identifying the best performing police handgun rounds.

Winchester’s early Silvertip performed dismally in most handgun calibers, though it would later prove itself in subsequent generations of improved ammunition. Federal’s Hydra-Shok series worked superbly in .45 caliber, but performed less effectively with some smaller diameter bullets. The police soon learned to trust only the Laboratory and Experiential Models, preferably in combination.

Combined models

Experience has taught police that what actually happens on the street is more important than what happens in the artificial environment of the laboratory. The 9mm round now acknowledged to work the best is a 124-grain to 127-grain high tech hollow point at a velocity of 1250 feet per second. NYPD, with some 30,000 officers carrying this type of ammo, the Speer Gold Dot +P 124-grain, is happy with the performance of its 9mm service pistols. Ditto the Orlando, Florida, Police Department, which uses the Winchester Ranger 127-grain +P+ in their standard issue 9mm SIGs.

 

[DustyVermonter]

I would use Hornady critical defense 115gr for a small 3in barrel, as far as accuracy is concerned, but you probably won't have too much, if at all trouble using the 124gr gold dot, its good stuff. I would make it a point to stay away from 147grn's tho, as that might be a little bit much for a small polymer frame handgun with a 3in barrel.

 

[Ben86]

I would use Hornady critical defense 115gr for a small 3in barrel,

I'm not interested in the critical defense cartridge for the 9mm, it seems to be loaded way to light. The .380 seems good though and I might check that out.

I'm not a fan of 147 grain. I'm sure they have come a long way in the past 10 years, but that is too much of a velocity loss for me.

 

[AKElroy]

115 +P+'s are more effective in actual shootings. Go light & fast.

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0&Weight=All

 

[SIGLBER]

If the expansion capability of a particular bullet prevents if from expanding with a loss of just 25-75 f.p.s. the bullet is not worth having. Most of the modern JHP's can lose much more than that and still expand. And you can get a bullet going too fast. If you load a bullet that was designed to expand at 1200 f.p.s. and jack it up to 1350 f.p.s. it will more than likely overexpand and/or fragment and not get deep penetration. If you lose a little velocity what usually happens is more penetration but less expansion. Better a deep hole than a shallow crater.

 

[gofastman]

Better a deep hole than a shallow crater.

well said, I agree

115 +P+'s are more effective in actual shootings. Go light & fast.

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpo...r=0&Weight=All

by their logic I could flip a penny 10 times, if it came up heads 8 of those times it would have an 80% of landing heads up in the future.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Any quality 124/5 grain JHP.

 

[AKElroy]

by their logic I could flip a penny 10 times, if it came up heads 8 of those times it would have an 80% of landing heads up in the future.

Actually, they studied 3500 shootings, + or -. Nearly 200 of those were 115 gr +P's. I'll take that data over a flip of a coin, or even ballistics gel anytime.

 

[gofastman]

Actually, they studied 3500 shootings, + or -. Nearly 200 of those were 115 gr +P's. I'll take that data over a flip of a coin, or even ballistics gel anytime.

There are infinitely more variables involved in incapacitation time than bullet weight, I say their "study" is grade A B.S.

 

[Walkalong]

"study" is grade A B.S.

You have data? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[easyg]

Better a deep hole than a shallow crater.

well said, I agree

I'm not so sure about that....

One thing seems to be true from all that I have ever seen or heard:

Hollow-points typically penetrate less than FMJ rounds, but hollow-points perform much better than FMJ rounds at quickly stopping human aggressors.

A bullet that penetrates 2.5" in to the heart and expands to twice its size will most likely stop an attacker just as fast, or even faster, than a bullet that penetrates totally throught the heart and exits out the back of the attacker's body but doesn't expand at all.

There's a good reason that nearly every law enforcement agency in the nation carries hollow-points in their pistols:
They're more effective than FMJ even though they typically offer less penetration.

 

[kokapelli]

I'm not so sure about that....

One thing seems to be true from all that I have ever seen or heard:

Hollow-points typically penetrate less than FMJ rounds, but hollow-points perform much better than FMJ rounds at quickly stopping human aggressors.

A bullet that penetrates 2.5" in to the heart and expands to twice its size will most likely stop an attacker just as fast, or even faster, than a bullet that penetrates totally throught the heart and exits out the back of the attacker's body but doesn't expand at all.

There's a good reason that nearly every law enforcement agency in the nation carries hollow-points in their pistols:
They're more effective than FMJ even though they typically offer less penetration.

Hmmmm! Through and through. Two smaller holes vs one larger hole! I'm not so sure either, but the through and through will reach the spine that the shallower penetrating jhp might not.

 

[EdLaver]

I like Corbon Pow'Rball 100gr +p in my compact 9's.

 

[Ben86]

I think its pretty safe to say that jhps do give better stopping power than fmj for com hits. But, I definitely don't discount fmj as anemic or see jhps as death ray wonder bullets. I believe that if a caliber is suitable for self defense even it's non expanding ammo should be able to do that job.

 

[Ben86]

I tested some of my old 115 grain gold dots out of my taurus 709 (3 inch barrel) and expansion was quite impressive. It expanded to .55 in a couple of water jugs and almost exited the second. .55 grain is pretty good from a 3 inch barrel, now to test the 124 grain.

 

[kokapelli]

I tested some of my old 115 grain gold dots out of my taurus 709 (3 inch barrel) and expansion was quite impressive. It expanded to .55 in a couple of water jugs and almost exited the second. .55 grain is pretty good from a 3 inch barrel, now to test the 124 grain.

Not making it through 2 jugs equates to pretty shallow penetration but I expect the bullet would not have expanded as much in flesh allowing deeper penetration.

 

[tbone3]

I've got my PF9 with a 3 inch barrel loaded with Gold Dot 124+p. I would consider the Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo too. I believe it is loaded with a 124gr bullet.

 

[e2cTrainer]

in My M&P 9c I use Hornady Critical Defense FTX 115 gr

What I did was alternated every other round with This ammo and some Federal HST

Both are very CLEAN rounds but something made me choose hornady, I also use it i my m&p 40c ;P

 

[Ben86]

Not making it through 2 jugs equates to pretty shallow penetration but I expect the bullet would not have expanded as much in flesh allowing deeper penetration.

One was a milk jug, the other was a large bleach jug, so that's a lot of water and penetration is apparently going to be less in water. But, I was expecting it to go all the way through the second jug as well. This is why I have recently switched to using 124 grain. I'm trying to talk myself into using 124+P now.

 

[christcorp]

in My M&P 9c I use Hornady Critical Defense FTX 115 gr

What I did was alternated every other round with This ammo and some Federal HST

Both are very CLEAN rounds but something made me choose hornady, I also use it i my m&p 40c ;P

I personally will never mix and match ammo in a magazine. I won't even mix the same manufacturer. There are too many variables between the different manufacturers. I've been known to put a very specific round in the chamber, with different rounds in the magazine. But all the rounds in the magazine are the same brand, size, and normally also from the same box.