Big Brother and Camera Phones

[bigjim]

GC70 said:Yes, bigjim, I do understand that there are differences in the type and severity of crimes.

Who gets to make the list of crimes that deserve to be reported to the police? You? Me? Agnes Cravitzs?

Look this is just a matter of projection. You think you need a list because your don't trust your self to know the difference. You are not confident that you will know when it is right to call the police and when you should mind you own business. So I understand your natural belief that nobody else can do better.

Sorry to say most of us can. Please seek help before it is to late. Perhaps some medication to help you focus?

 

[joab]

No Joab its bad because it is bad. As a child I hated snitches. Did not care for them as a young adult in the service. Don't like them now.

I was actually using this one as the basis for your snitch hating attitude.

You have made your position clear, you don't like cops or snitches.

In the future, when you choose to answer a question asked of someone else, I will understand that this is where your opinions come from

What more is there to say except to further insult those that don't share your opinion.

 

[gc70]

Look this is just a matter of projection. You think you need a list because your don't trust your self to know the difference. You not confifent that you will no when it is right to call the policeand when you should mind you own business. So I understand your natural belief that nobody else can do better.

So to say most of us can. Please seek help before it is to late. Perhaps some medication to help you focus?

Thank you for being both judgemental and insulting; it only weakens the credibility of your argument.

I know what crimes I would report to the police, but I don't claim a monopoly on being "right" while you apparently do.

I saw a woman spank her vicious little brat in a mall parking lot about a week ago. Some people, particularly those who grew up in abusive homes, would have called the police. I would not condemn someone for calling the police in that situation, even though I didn't see the need to.

I don't see a problem with people reporting what they honestly believe to be illegal activity to the police. Everyone sees the world a little differently, so the things that would be reported would differ from person to person.

The only problem I would have would be with people who reported things to the police just to be vindictive, such as "I don't like bigjim, so I'll get him in trouble by reporting him to the police for dropping a gum wrapper on the sidewalk." In school, the snitches were the snotty kids who ran and tattled to the teachers just to get other kids in trouble; I hated snitches then, and I still do.

 

[cuchulainn]

Me: Get it? It just sounds kind of creepy for citizens to be sending photos of each other's "anti-social behavior" (whatever that is) to a government office with a downright Orwellian name. Creepy. Oogie

Joab: So it's bad because it sounds scary, kinda like an AK is bad cause it looks scary.

Hmm? No. Apples and oranges. There's a huge difference between:

A) Citizens disapproving of a government program (the phone-camera program);

and

B) Citizens seeking government action against other citizens (gun bans)

For your comparison to be valid, I'd have to be calling for a ban on cell phone cameras. I'm not doing that. For all I care, people can snap all the photos they want and send them to whomever they want, including to the police.

What I object to is the government seeking to create a program whereby people report "anti-social behaviour" -- not necessarily crimes, mind you, but "anti-social behaviour."

Joab: So then it's us against the cops and anyone who cooperates is a snitch

Actually, no, this is not a situation where the attitude is "us against the cops." Rather, it's a situation where the government seeks to turn citizen against citizen. That's bad enough, but it's made worse by the fact that we're not speaking strictly of crimes, but of this vague, Orwellian concept called "anti-social behaviour."

As Iapetus noted in Post #33, the "anti-social behaviour" program has involved reporting of both real crimes and non-crimes. So if anything is similar to your "scary gun" example, it is this program itself, not our objection to it.

by the way.

 

[joab]

For your comparison to be valid, I'd have to be calling for a ban on cell phone cameras. I'm not doing that. For all I care, people can snap all the photos they want and send them to whomever they want, including to the police.

Your comment suggest aversion to something, in this case a government office, based on a emotional response to something being scary to you,in this case the downright Orwellian name.
I my opinion it's the same mentality at work.

What I object to is the government seeking to create a program whereby people report "anti-social behaviour" -- not necessarily crimes, mind you, but "anti-social behaviour."

When they see graffiti, abandoned cars, fly-tipping or other problems detrimental to their local community

Sounds to me like "anti-social behavior" is just their fancy English name for petty crimes and vandalism,

So then it's us against the cops and anyone who cooperates is a snitch

That was directed at another poster in response to another post

And would one of the Brits here please tell what "fly-tipping" is, it can't be the same thing that we do to cows over here

 

[jefnvk]

So, they want people to send in pictures of things like Graffiti, to alert the cops to where problems are? If anything, it seems like a waste of time and resources to me.

If I call in Graffiti on the phone, does that somehow make me a snitch? If I call the police to report that someone dumped a dryer on my lawn, am I somehow the enemy? No, I just want people to respect others property.

Somehow, I doubt that these reports never happened before camera phones. The camera phone is just another way to report it. The ends are still the same, the means are the thing that are changing.

And personally, I hate camera phones. For the most part, crappy resolution, and them being everywhere. I think I am in the background of half a dozen photos a day.

 

[cuchulainn]

joab: In my opinion it's the same mentality at work.

First of all, by the way, I don't fear this program, and I wouldn't fear it if it were used in the U.S. I simply find it objectionable. I said it is creepy. But I meant it's creepy in a distasteful way, not a scary way.

In any event, no, I don't see the same mentality at work. There is not an imperious mentality at work when citizens object to a government program. There is an imperious mentality at work when citizens object to other citizens' freedoms.

Rather than mentalities, perhaps similar emotions are at work -- whether fear or distaste. The difference is that it is 100% legitimate for citizens to seek to stop government programs they fear or dislike -- even if the fear/dislike is unfounded. However, it is rarely -- if ever -- legitimate for citizens to seek to end other citizens' freedoms based on fear/dislike.

Sounds to me like "anti-social behavior" is just their fancy English name for petty crimes and vandalism,

As was pointed out in post #33 by someone who lives there, people have recieved "anti-social behaviour orders" from the authorities for actions that were not criminal.

 

[Art Eatman]

Going back to the opening post: "When they see graffiti, abandoned cars, fly-tipping or other problems detrimental to their local community..."

It's the "other problems detrimental" bit that bothers me. That's subjective as all get out.

Let's say I'm meandering along, thinking I'm harming nobody and not doing anything wrong. Some ultra-strict control freak thinks I'm doing something detrimental. Or, you can reverse this deal if you want. Your no-intent action of whatever sort upsets me.

Then, I (first instance) get hassled for what I think is no good reason. The cops gotta waste their time. I'm mad. I'm less of a cooperative citizen than before. And just maybe, the next time I see some Dude with a cell phone, I snap...

Or vice versa...

This sort of thing has too much potential, in my mind, to put a serious hickey in mutual trust and public harmony. Lord knows we're in enough trouble with that, already.

Art