Big Exit Hole, No Blood Trail ? ?

[Cocked & Locked]

I've shot two deer thus far this season with my .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun. I used handloads with 49.5 grains of IMR 3031 under a Remington 405 grain JSP bullet.

Both bullets exited the deer, leaving exit wounds the diameter of a 25-cent piece.

Deer #1 was shot 70-75 yards behind the shoulder. He went only about 10 feet, but no blood spill where he stood, just when he went down...not unusual.

Deer #2 was shot at 40 yards behind the shoulder and dropped (unseen) about 50 yards away. No blood trail or blood on the ground where the deer was standing, nor did it leave a blood trail.

Deer #2 would have probably been very difficult to find if shot in the late evening as it started running one way then obviously (not at the time) changed directions.

I'm used to hunting with a .270, .30-06, or .300 mag. Those calibers make an exit hole about the same size as the .45-70, but there is an outburst of blood where the deers stand, and usually a heavy blood trail.

Is this typical of the heavy slow moving .45-70 405 grain round? I like hunting with it and it is definitley lethal and is a penetrator. I just would like a little more tracking advantage if needed late in the evenings.

exit hole on deer #2 In thoughts or opinions?

 

[obxflea]

big heavy bullet moving slow, probably doesnt expand at all. Probably not transferring much energy either. May wanna try a lighter bullet, hollowpoint?

 

[Shawnee]

Sounds pretty normal to me, regardless of caliber. In fact, with a good hit, I would be surprised to find much (if any) blood at the exact spot the deer was hit - unless the deer dropped in it's tracks, or perhaps was knocked off its' feet but managed to rise and move off a bit.

One deer went 10ft. and the other 10yds - that's not too much tracking to do. Just walking concentric circles would have found either in a few minutes.

 

[geo57]

Cocked & Locked, I harvested my buck last Sunday morning with my 45/70 Handi rifle, and my handload of the same bullet you are using, the Rem. 405 JFN and 32 grs. of IMR 4198 ( 1350 FPS ). 25 yard shot . He was hit right behind the near shoulder . The slug clipped the top of the heart and broke the offside shoulder before exiting. There were 1 1/2 " holes on the inside of the carcass cavity. He ran 45 yards before piling up, leaving a blood trail Stevie Wonder could have followed. My 7th deer with this rifle. While the 300 gr. JHP's do open up more, you get " iffy" total pass through /exit wounds with them if driven to 1700 FPS or more and if heavy brisket or shoulder bone is hit on the entrance side. Years ago, I used a 300 gr. Rem. JHP and was given a quartering to me shot where I had to hit a shoulder going in. While it broke the shoulder, reached the vitals & he ran only a short way, it did not exit and left no blood trail. Luckily, he was on open prarie, and no tracking was needed. I since have gone to my 405 load. I want that exit hole. It's my experience and opinion that you are thinking correctly wanting an exit hole . You may need it to give a good blood trail in low light or heavy cover, or both. I have in the past. My 2 cents. Why deer # 2 left no blood in 50 yards is beyond me. I've never seen this occur with the bullet and facts you gave. Regards

 

[CSA 357]

C&l try the 300 gr hp, thats what i shoot out of my b 78, i have killed alot of deer with this combo, they dont run! Im guessing about 2100 fps some times it doesnt exit, and the bullet will be about the size of a 50cent piece, im useing 3031 also, if you want loading data e mail me, dont give up on the 4570, its a deer killing machine, with the rite load, csa

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Sounds pretty normal to me, regardless of caliber. In fact, with a good hit, I would be surprised to find much (if any) blood at the exact spot the deer was hit - unless the deer dropped in it's tracks, or perhaps was knocked off its' feet but managed to rise and move off a bit.

One deer went 10ft. and the other 10yds - that's not too much tracking to do. Just walking concentric circles would have found either in a few minutes.

Interesting. I've been deer hunting since I was 18 and am now 65...probably killed 200+ deer. I find it to not be normal.

Disregard the one that went 10 feet. I stated no big issue with that. The other was not 10 yds as you mistakingly quoted, but 50 yards before it fell. Not leaving a blood trail within 50 yards ain't "normal".

Thanks anyways.

 

[janobles14]

blood trails typically occr when the deer bolts off. the heart like crazy and spurts blood from the wound. if the deer is dead on the spot or just has a motor reflex to run a very short distance then there probably wont be much of a trail.

 

[Shawnee]

Glad you find my comment "interesting", C&L.

My "ooops" on the mis-read of deer #2's travels. No blood trail at all in that distance would seem a wee bit odd - any chance it was there and you just missed it? That happens sometimes.

Sounds like you've had a long and successful deer-hunting career, C&L. Congratulations. Have shot a couple deer myself but, since I have long been in the habit of going for CNS hits, probably 80% of mine haven't gone anywhere except Down.

Sounds like you drop 'em pretty quickly too, with/without a blood trail.

Good luck this season.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Thanks Shawnee...good luck to you as well!

CNS does work, that's for certain...as in neck shot I reckon ?

 

[H&Hhunter]

There is a real simple explanation for all of this guys. When you hit the heart and destroy the heart muscle there will be little or no blood trail many times. because the heart if destroyed is unable to pump therefore leaving little or no blood trail.

A shot through the top of the heart or especially through the vessels above the heart will bleed like a firehose. Lung shots usually take some time to start bleeding as the lungs must fill with blood first.
Of course none of this stuff is exact and your milage will vary.

I shot a cow elk last week and that old girl even though lung shot, didn't leave a drop of blood for about 30 yards and then only specks. She didn't really start to leave blood until she started blowing it out her mouth.

 

[fireman 9731]

I agree with CSA 357. I load the 300 grain hollowpoints on top of a medium/medium high load of IMR 4895, or Varget and have dropped the last 6 deer like a sack of potatoes!
Im sure I am getting a little higher velocity out of my 32 inch barreled buffalo classic though, Even then it shouldnt make much of a difference. As far as the blood trail goes though I have never had much of one, seems like when I butcher them that they bleed out internally. Every shot has been a pass through with an exit would at least as big is a fifty cent piece all the way out to 150 yards.

 

[35 Whelen]

There's nothing wrong with the bullet you're using IMHO. It's killing deer, right? In order to have a blood trail, the deer have to be hit somewhere that causes bleeding, most notably the lungs. Did you perhaps hit above or below the lungs? Was the body cavity full of blood when you gutted the deer?

Interesting. I've been deer hunting since I was 18 and am now 65...probably killed 200+ deer. I find it to not be normal.

Wait a minute.....You've been hunting almost 50 years, have killed over 200 deer, and you want our opinion?!?!?

35W

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Wait a minute.....You've been hunting almost 50 years, have killed over 200 deer, and you want our opinion?!?!?

Sure...why not? Us old codgers can learn a lot from young pups if we'll just listen.

 

[Al Thompson]

Need to let your pup know that it's too late for mouth-to-mouth...

 

[Shawnee]

No Fair using Retrievers to drag your deer back !

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Here is my opinion...

With a 45/70 I'd be going for the high shoulder shot... Probably bust 1 or both shoulders and break the spine too. The deer will simply fall over...no tracking involved as long as you do your part.

I've killed a few deer with a 45/70...Unless you hit bone, it is just a hole punch most of the time. The bullet is not moving fast enough to cause massive tissue disruption...but if you hit some solid bone...it will knock the socks off a deer.

 

[CSA 357]

I have killed close to a hundred deer with a 47-70. Never lost one ! Just try the 300 gr hp, they dont kick or trash around they are just dead! I have some 350 gr sp i was going to try , but why? My loads are working better than anything i have ever used, like i said they dont always exit, but you dont need a blood trail when they hit the dirt where thay are hit, i killed a nice 9 pt at 200 yards with my 45-70 he didnt go 20 yards! I cant say enough good things about the 45-70 , i think the heaver bullets are for heaver game , elk, moose, bear, i am color blind, a blood trail is of little use to me, at one time i had dogs that would trail up my deer, if you cant tell i love the 45-70! csa

 

[rugerman]

With a high lung shot it takes a while for the blood to reach the exit (or entrance) hole and leave a trail. If you hit the heart, the pump is broken and therefore no blood trail.