bill defines violent protesters as terrorists

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2dogs

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http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/104859720379330.xml


Antiterror bill meets opposition at hearing

03/25/03

HARRY ESTEVE

SALEM -- A bill that would define violent protesters as terrorists and subject them to possible life imprisonment came under attack Monday at a packed and sometimes tense legislative hearing.

Antiwar activists and civil libertarians showed up in force to criticize Senate Bill 742, which they said contains overly broad language and gives police expanded powers to investigate people based on ethnicity.




"We are living in the McCarthy era all over again," said Patty Caldwell, an antiwar activist from Welches. "Then, you were called a communist. Now, you're called a terrorist sympathizer."

The statements came during the bill's first hearing in the Senate Judiciary Committee. Committee Chairman Sen. John Minnis, R-Wood Village, author of the bill, threatened to clear the hearing room after repeated bursts of applause for speakers and interruptions shouted from the audience.

Minnis said he introduced the measure to put all crimes that could be construed as terrorism into a single law with tough punishment guidelines, and to require Oregon police agencies to cooperate with federal investigations into terrorists.

But the wording of the bill left many concerned that it could be applied to relatively minor acts of vandalism or misbehavior during a demonstration. The bill applies to acts of violence committed while someone is disrupting commerce, transportation, schools or universities.

Anyone convicted of terrorism would get an automatic life sentence with a 25-year minimum before being considered for parole.

"Many of the protesters arrested last week in Portland for misdemeanor conduct may have qualified for prosecution" under SB 742, said Susan Russell of the Oregon Criminal Lawyers Association. Crimes, such as throwing a rock through a window, or lighting flags on fire while demonstrating, do not warrant potential life sentences, she said.

After the hearing, the judiciary committee's three Democratic members spoke against the bill, all but killing its chances of surviving intact. All Senate committees are divided equally between Democrats and Republicans, and a bill must get a majority of committee votes to move forward.

"This bill chips away at the very freedom we profess to enjoy in the face of terrorism," said Sen. Charlie Ringo, D-Beaverton. "I would not want our servicemen in the Middle East and elsewhere to return and find that the freedoms they are risking their lives for overseas have been damaged while entrusted to the care of the Oregon Senate."

Sen. Ted Ferrioli of John Day, one of three Republicans on the committee, said Oregon law needs to be changed to more clearly define acts of civil disobedience and acts of terrorism. But two other Democrats on the committee, Vicki Walker of Eugene and Ginny Burdick of Portland, said they won't support the bill.

Minnis said he will rewrite portions of the bill in an attempt to address concerns about the broad language and role Oregon police agencies would have in federal terror investigations. No additional hearings have been scheduled on the bill.

"Unfortunately, there's a lot of hysteria associated with some of the original language" of the bill, he said. "I will bring something back and see if it works."
 
I have to agree, here.

We are being entirely too casual in tossing the word "terrorist" around these days.

Some kid who tosses a rock through a Starbucks window deserves to get sentenced for vandalism, see the inside of the county pokey, and pay for the window. But a life sentence? Get real...
 
More from the "zero-tolerance" playbook. "We won’t have to deal with all those pesky details determining what laws you violated, we’ll just brand you with the Scarlet “T†and toss you in the Gulag."

rant.gif


I’m sick to death of the quagmire that our Legal System has devolved into. It’s either brain-dead laws like this or something so convoluted that it could only come from the mind of a Enron tax lawyer on crack. Few involved in the so-called Criminal “Justice†System seem to be interested in justice. Why don’t they just stop pussy footing around and admit that what they REALLY want is a system where there’s just a database where you punch in the “crime type†and “severity†and the computer spits out a sentence and off you go. No thought required, no human compassion or judgment needed. A true irony of a “justiceâ system, don’t you think?
 
what they REALLY want is a system where there’s just a database where you punch in the “crime type†and “severity†and the computer spits out a sentence and off you go. No thought required, no human compassion or judgment needed.

But... but... that's what mandatory minimums are all about! :eek:
 
Man, what's up with Oreygun?

A potential life sentence because some trust fund whiner vandalizes a McDonald's playground? Could everyone in the same protest march be hit with conspiracy under Oreygun law???

How about just making mommy's little angel get a tougher sentence on the Crim Mischief?

Tamara, well, it depends. But "plug and chug" is what the USSG matrix IS all about.:p
 
I'm all in favor of it. The people of this country need to be goaded into a proper white-hot rage before there will be any of the necessary changes made with the system. As long as they are "safe" and comfortable and it is only those people who have trouble with the po-po John Q won't do a thing. When some whitebread suburbanite yuppie-spawn start getting beaten, harrassed, and disappeared, then John Q won't have much choice but to get involved.
 
Well, I think we are well on the way. Look at how many “crimes†are classified as felonies these days. Another few years and it will virtually impossible for the average person to go through a typical 24 hour day without at least a technical violation of a felony law. All that will be left is to enforce the laws as needed to remove those that pose a threat to the state (such as libertarians, conservatives or gun owners).

Yes, it’s paranoid but waaaaaay too close to the truth for my tastes. Remember it’s not who’s in power now that worries me… it’s who MIGHT take advantage of these laws at a later date (think Hillary).
 
A bill that would define violent protesters as terrorists and subject them to possible life imprisonment came under attack Monday at a packed and sometimes tense legislative hearing.

Antiwar activists and civil libertarians showed up in force to criticize Senate Bill 742, which they said contains overly broad language and gives police expanded powers to investigate people based on ethnicity.

Seems to me the main bone of contention would be between defining violence as the real world sees it- or defining violence as seen through the drug hazed Liberal mind. (uh, who in this article represents the "civil libertarian"? Democrats and the Criminal Lawyer's Association? Oh, I see.)

No, a rock through McDonald's window wouldn't make it- a lead pipe to someone's head would- is it that difficult to figure out?
 
2dogs, it depends on how an "act of violence" is defined. The fear is that it is overreaches and could define criminal mischief, disorderly conduct (noise, etc.), or criminal trespass as "terrorism" and the attendant conspiracy charges.

Any law that can be abused, will be abused.
 
2dogs,

while your faith in the integrity of the justice system is heartwarming, I think I'll weigh the misgivings of those who've passed the bar in the state in question somewhat heavier than your assurances.

Even if it required actual physical violence against another human being, why does a crime that would normally receive a disorderly conduct or simple assault charge suddenly become a life-imprisonment felony because it happened during a protest?

This is as goofy as the "Hate Crime" laws. If an assault is serious enough to require a life sentence, it shouldn't matter how many placards were being waved as it took place.
 
Any law that can be abused, will be abused

Oh, another anarchist arguement?;)


I think I'll weigh the misgivings of those who've passed the bar in the state in question somewhat heavier than your assurances

I'd venture a guess that most of the Senate members passed the bar- what's your point?

And I didn't assure anything, nor have I read the bill- so I'm just a tad leary of taking the word of "anti-war activists" that it is another Hitlerian decree from the "nazis" running the country.:barf:
 
Oh, don't believe all that "McCarthy" and "Hitlerian" tripe from those mouthpieces.

Look underneath it all: the law is dumb at its root. We already have perfectly serviceable laws on the books for covering this. Getting caught up in the emotion of the moment and slapping a mandatory sentence on what should be a case-by-case thing (like any crime) is just silly. It's more of that "crimethink" nonsense.

Punch a man: A night in the drunk tank and a fine.
Punch a man who's a different color: Hate crime.
Punch a man while the person standing next to you is carrying a "No War!" sign: Life in prison, you terrorist!
 
slapping a mandatory sentence on what should be a case-by-case thing (like any crime) is just silly

Agree.:)

However, if a violent act is committed as a treasonous act in a time of war, then I think the long sentence is warranted. I'm not saying that PROTEST is treasonous- but that a TREASONOUS act that involves violence should be treated more severly than a "punch in the nose".


Did I say that right?

Oh well, off to work- see ya.
 
Punch a man: A night in the drunk tank and a fine.
Punch a man who's a different color: Hate crime.
Punch a man while the person standing next to you is carrying a "No War!" sign: Life in prison, you terrorist!

Tamara,

Once again you are in the ten ring. There should be no reason to add new laws when existing laws cover the gamut of violent behavior. I guess the senator from Oregon needs to justify his existence.:banghead: :barf:
 
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