Black Powder replica for public shows

[nomadboi]

Hopefully this isn't too stupid a question, but I'll start by admitting straight up that I know next to nothing about black powder firearms and other antique styles- only real firearms I own are modern (870, Steyr M40, Browning .22).

My non-firing or blank firing replicas waaaay outnumber the real guns though, since most of what I do is theatrical and indie film work. That's how I got started, and that's the part that at least comes close to paying for itself.

On to pirates. Ah yes, trendy trendy pirates! Can't escape them in movies or plays these days! I just came back from a week long stage combat workshop where they had a couple of folks from the Historical Maritime Combat Association teaching classes on boarding actions, tomahawk and knife (fun stuff!), cutlass, and a bit on pistol, rifle, musket, etc. Seeing has how the Pacific NW has a number of tall ships and pirate festivals, I'd like to try pitching a couple show ideas to them now (I've done RenFaires and the like before, so this isn't very big a stretch for me).

But I'd really like to be able to use things that go boom, and I haven't gotten to do that in outdoor period productions before- the last RenFaire I did specifically prohibits any firearms replicas.

I know with replicas there's a difference in the laws regarding antiques versus modern replicas- older styles don't need the orange plugs when they're sold, things like that... but I don't know much about the laws regarding real black-powder firearms.

It seems I have two options (although you guys might be able to come up with more):

*Use a real black-powder firearm carefully packed with a bit of powder and maybe some flash-paper wadding, using all the proper safety regulations, and figuring out what laws are applicable since I may well be doing these shows on public property. What part is considered the receiver on a flintlock? Could it be replaced with something to make it a non-gun?

*Get a cap gun and modify it to be able to fire .22 crimp blanks or something similar, ideally with at least a partially open muzzle for that bit of smoke. I have a friend who's modified cap guns to fire black powder, but that makes me a bit nervous about things like exploding pot-metal and the like.

Anybody have any experience with public demonstrations involving black powder at re-enactments, etc? Being in Seattle, we don't have the wealth of civil war and western re-enactments that exist in some other parts of the country. I'd love to know what the usual practices are, and the pros and cons.

Thanks!
-Kevin

 

[mykeal]

All of the re-enactments and public "demonstrations" I've ever been to, over the last 40 years, appeared to be using functional BP weapons loaded with BP and wads. Modifying the weapon to take .22 blanks is not a realistic option, in my opinion. You need the flash, boom and especially the smoke to have any kind of realistic demonstration.

However, I've never personally done a demo or participated first hand in a re-enactment, so I could be completely off base.

There is a guy at Colonial Williamsburg in VA who does demos of a matchlock musket 4 times a day; very effective due to his smoke, flame and boom exhibition.

 

[ArmedBear]

Pirate shows I've seen on ships in California use BP weapons loaded with blanks, and cannon.

You may need a theatrical permit or something, depending on your laws regarding firearms, pyrotechnics, etc. Most places, even those with laws against carrying or firing guns in city limits, have provisions in the law for theatrical use.

 

[arcticap]

I'm curious about what the safe distance might be to fire off a black powder "blank load" at a person without worrying about hitting them with [possibly burning] black powder residue.
Would your plans be to shoot up into the air, or directly [or indirectly] at the participating actors?
Another related issue would be what is the appropriate loudness level [of the blank load] for the proximity of both the actors and the audience?

 

[c_yeager]

Locally, the Seafair Pirates (amusing group of people) do in fact (or at least untill very recently) fire reproduction pistols during their parade appearances along with several other parade organizations. You might ask them if they bothered to do any legal hula-hoops for that (you'll have to find a time when they are sober though, maybe try Sunday afternoon )

 

[Phillip Allen]

I've fooled with the stuff for 40 years...there are things I would and would not do simply by long developed habit at this point...what comes to mind is work up loads using FFFFg powder and nothing coarser...unburned FFg or FFFg is somewhat like small shot...it happens! Wads to hold the powder in should be no heavier than typewriter paper held in with a bit of fingernail polish...that would be a disc of paper and not a wad of it. Do not aim directly at anyone within 20 or 30 feet...compensate with camera angles. Use full "weight" weapons...they handle differently than the light weight ones and it shows to me. With that in mind, have the actors carry the things round and cock and un cock and dry fire till the cows come home...awkwardness shows. In the case of pirate time-lines...muzzle loading firearms need a supply of "stuff" with them for repeat shots and I have serious doubts that repeat shots happened after boarding except from the fighting tops with those marksmen stationed there. Ships were carried with edged weapons. men's arms get tired pretty quick swinging a pike or cutlass and those fights have to have been determined quick without much additional smoke and certainly no fire...fire will sink BOTH ships not to mention destruction of the cargo being sought by the thieves in the first place.

A story which depends on flash and bang and smoke is inherently weak…get better writers!

 

[nomadboi]

I know for at least some of their cannons, the SeaFair Pirates use 12ga blanks.
I do know some of them though- I'll have to ask.

I would not be firing directly at anyone, either off target from 30 feet or so, or just up in the air to get attention before a show. This would be for live shows mostly, so camera angles aren't a way to cheat.

For wadding, I'd probably use flash paper- bigger flame, and it burns off before it can go anywhere it shouldn't.

Agreed on the volume and powder load issues.

 

[Phillip Allen]

I had another thought...any reloading done on scene will involve sticking a projectile down the bore (ramrod) so I wouldn't plan on any reloading if lawyers are watching. Many years ago my little town used to stage a show for the rodeo and volenteers played the parts...till someone got shot with a spent .22 blank that had been dropped down the bore of a larger caliber gun...

 

[JediJJJ]

Florist Foam

For some reason I thought florist foam was the wadding of choice for blanks. Heard said that it totally disintegrates when fired so there is no projectile and is stays in place well.

 

[c_yeager]

For some reason I thought florist foam was the wadding of choice for blanks. Heard said that it totally disintegrates when fired so there is no projectile and is stays in place well.

crumlpled aluminum foil works OK too, but I wouldnt trust either for close range re-enacment in which the weapons are fired towards people. Really, I dont think any blank charge is going to be safe in that situation, some powder in the flash pan maybe, but if I was participating I would demand to inspect the weapon and see that the vent hole was not drilled (several companies make flintlocks in this manner for display).

 

[mike101]

nomadboi

I'm pretty sure that, in your state, a flintlock is already a non-gun, as it is in most states. They are also non-guns as far as the feds are concerned.

 

[c_yeager]

I'm pretty sure that, in your state, a flintlock is already a non-gun, as it is in most states. They are also non-guns as far as the feds are concerned.

A capped or primed blackpowder firearm is a "loaded firearm" in Washington state law, and I bet it is in most other states as well. Shoot it in public and it is discharging a firearm in public. BP firearms are really only considered non-guns for the purpose of federal law regarding transfers, they are still guns though.