Blue Dot for 40S&W full power loads dangerous or hype?

[desmobob]

I've used a bunch of it in .40 and 9mm loads with no problems or complaints. I've always thought of it as a slower version of Unique...

 

[Rule3]

True but they have no data for 165gr loads. I'm stocked on 165s and with no data at all for this weight, makes me think they had some more pressure spike problems. Especially since nobody here has come out and said they have used this combination.

You never answers what other powders are avalible??

The thread of course morphs into other uses for BD wich is not the topic but not so much in the 40sw, If folks like it then they can use it,

You can interpolate the charge from Alliants, 155 and 180 gr data, for the 165, You can't compare data (amount) from another manual in relation to "other powders"??

 

[Rule3]

It burns clean at pressures found in the .40 S&W.

You selective quoted or cherry picked my post.
With a 180 grain bullet which is not the OPs question, there is data for the 180, and said you wouldn't buy it again.

 

[Hartkopf]

You never answers what other powders are avalible??

I believe Power Pistol was the only other slow powder on the shelf. That would be ok but I wanted something that would give the velocity of BE-86 and Blue Dot did that with other bullet weights in some cases. Power Pistol wasn’t quite up there as high. There was a ton of Titegroup and Bullseye but that’s the total wrong end of what I want.

 

[Toprudder]

For .40 S&W, my first two choices would be Power Pistol or BE86. I know there are others, but those are the two I like.

 

[Bfh_auto]

This is the data I used.
I highly recommend the Lyman manual if you like to mix and match powder and bullet brands. It's money well spent.

 

[Walkalong]

It burns clean at pressures found in the .40 S&W.

You selective quoted or cherry picked my post.
With a 180 grain bullet which is not the OPs question, there is data for the 180, and said you wouldn't buy it again.

I don't understand your gripe, and I certainly didn't cherry pick.. I said it works well in the .40, at .40 pressures. Maybe I should have explained better.

Blue Dot works well in .40 and burns clean at that operating pressure. BD is a lot like HS-6, load it too low, and it's dirty. Load it at or near max, and it burns clean.

Kind of a specialty powder really IMHO, but it does some things very well. The OP asked about the .40, Blue Dot, and 165 Gr Berrys. It will work well for that.

Would I pick it if I was looking to buy a .40 Powder? No, I think others work better, but the OP has it, and wants to know if it will work. IMHO, it will work well, and at .40 pressures will not be "flaming dirt", which is a very strong statement.

 

[Rule3]

I believe Power Pistol was the only other slow powder on the shelf. That would be ok but I wanted something that would give the velocity of BE-86 and Blue Dot did that with other bullet weights in some cases. Power Pistol wasn’t quite up there as high. There was a ton of Titegroup and Bullseye but that’s the total wrong end of what I want.

I mentioned in post #27 how to find the load data for your 165 gr bullet and use the Blue Dot . It is not all this complicated. I still maintain that there are better powders out there that are more of a medium burn it doesn't have to be a a slow magnum powder.
Clean or Dirty doesn't matter, clean you guns anyway.

As always, start low, work up, YMMV Hope this Helps etc etc.

 

[Hartkopf]

I mentioned in post #27 how to find the load data for your 165 gr bullet and use the Blue Dot . It is not all this complicated. I still maintain that there are better powders out there that are more of a medium burn it doesn't have to be a a slow magnum powder.
Clean or Dirty doesn't matter, clean you guns anyway.

As always, start low, work up, YMMV Hope this Helps etc etc.

I would do that but since Blue Dot has had pressure spikes with two different loads in the past, I don’t want to be the guy who finds the next crazy pressure spike with a combination that has no published data (for full power). Since 40S&W 165 grain bullets are so common and Speer skipped this data for Blue Dot, makes me wonder if there were major problems. Again nobody here makes me feel warm and fuzzy about Blue Dot with my combination. I might use the Lyman data for just plain middle of the road target loads but not 1150fps full power stuff.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

 

[Walkalong]

nobody here makes me feel warm and fuzzy about Blue Dot with my combination.

Then don't do it, we get it.


Do you have another more suitable powder? Many "medium" speed pistol powders will work well.

 

[Rule3]

I would do that but since Blue Dot has had pressure spikes with two different loads in the past, I don’t want to be the guy who finds the next crazy pressure spike with a combination that has no published data (for full power). Since 40S&W 165 grain bullets are so common and Speer skipped this data for Blue Dot, makes me wonder if there were major problems. Again nobody here makes me feel warm and fuzzy about Blue Dot with my combination. I might use the Lyman data for just plain middle of the road target loads but not 1150fps full power stuff.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

It just means they di not test it. Just like many other bullets and lad data. Alliants online data is poor compared to Hodgdons or Accurate

General rule is if you don't have data for a specific weight you can use the next higher weight bullet data. Alliant data needs to be reduced by 10% as it is max data. Then to be safe reduce that by another 10%
Speer and Alliant are one in the same

But again if you have no other powders locally then you need to get some online.

PS: I don't understand why you do not like Lyman #49 load data for the 165 gr bullet and Blue Dot?? Again I am not a fan of the powder but the data is there in black and white? 165 gr bullets where not real common when the 40 SW came around so a lot of testing was probably not done. If I recall the original bullet was 180gr.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I would do that but since Blue Dot has had pressure spikes with two different loads in the past, I don’t want to be the guy who finds the next crazy pressure spike with a combination that has no published data (for full power). Since 40S&W 165 grain bullets are so common and Speer skipped this data for Blue Dot, makes me wonder if there were major problems. Again nobody here makes me feel warm and fuzzy about Blue Dot with my combination. I might use the Lyman data for just plain middle of the road target loads but not 1150fps full power stuff.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

I shared data from Lyman 49. It was accurate. I just prefer CFE-P because I can throw it with a volumetric. I was using a beam scale for the Bluedot.

 

[sparkyv]

I've used a bunch of it in .40 and 9mm loads with no problems or complaints.

Same here including 165 grainers.

I sure burn a LOT of it in 10mm and 44 mag.

Indeed! BD is my favorite for 10mm, 2nd favorite for 44 Mag.

 

[Hartkopf]

Same here including 165 grainers.

How high did you go?

 

[Hartkopf]

I don't understand why you do not like Lyman #49 load data for the 165 gr bullet and Blue Dot?? Again I am not a fan of the powder but the data is there in black and white?

Because it shows a max load of 9.2gr at 1018fps. Speer shows loads for 165gr that are basically 100fps faster. (similar to factor GoldDots). This is what I want to be able to load.

I haven’t been able to find what barrel length Speer is using though. Lyman is using 4” so if Speer is using 5” that might be the difference.

 

[sparkyv]

How high did you go?

9.5gr. No chrono, no pressure signs at all. I consider this a MAX load for my firearms (BHP, CZ P-09). Acceptable accuracy for my needs. Work up to this level stepwise and with caution. YMMV

 

[25-20 WCF]

Yes, BlueDot was originally marketed as a shotgun AND magnum handgun powder. Alliant (ne. Hercules) even published bottlenecked case loading data (!). Some folks are afraid of using it, and that’s just fine. More for the rest of us who aren’t.....



.

 

[Rule3]

Because it shows a max load of 9.2gr at 1018fps. Speer shows loads for 165gr that are basically 100fps faster. (similar to factor GoldDots). This is what I want to be able to load.

I haven’t been able to find what barrel length Speer is using though. Lyman is using 4” so if Speer is using 5” that might be the difference.

Good grief. Alliant/Speer used a 4" universal receiver. Lyman used a 4" SW.
Which all means nothing as you are using a different bullet different gun, different test conditions and phase of the moon and planet alignment.

Good Luck!

 

[Walkalong]

Blue Dot is very bulky and they may have simply run out of room to pack more in, dunno. That's easily checked though.

100 FPS plus or minus in a book isn't a big deal in .40 IMHO, not worth chasing it if gets you out of your comfort zone.

 

[Hartkopf]

Good grief. Alliant/Speer used a 4" universal receiver. Lyman used a 4" SW.
Which all means nothing as you are using a different bullet different gun, different test conditions and phase of the moon and planet alignment.

Good Luck!

Yes good grief. Lyman has several loads showing less powder and less velocity in relation to the Speer. Because this powder has a pressure spike reputation and no Speer data on a particular bullet weight, I was asking for more info, data and other people’s feelings on this powder. sparkyv gave his actual load data, which was over Lyman’s typical safe numbers. You and others have given good info so I’m pretty well good to go from here. Thanks for the help!

 

[Hartkopf]

Blue Dot is very bulky and they may have simply run out of room to pack more in, dunno. That's easily checked though.

100 FPS plus or minus in a book isn't a big deal in .40 IMHO, not worth chasing it if gets you out of your comfort zone.

True. Thanks for the help.

 

[GW Staar]

I and many others over the years have tried Unique in .40 too. Me only with 180 grain Gold Dots. I have no complaints.....works fine for me. Have not tried any of the new releases yet.

I have never tried Blue Dot powder.....it's always had a stigma about spikes.

 

[ElGuero]

I used Blue Dot with Nosler 135’s in 40, as well as cast 140’s (Velocity Bullets, bought out by Rimrock, I believe). Worked acceptably well.

Best powder I’ve used for MBC 300 grain cast in 44 mag. Accurate, with low SD and ES. Getting ready to buy some more

 

[gunlaw]

I don’t understand the problem with Blue Dot. My preference for 40 s&w is accurate #5. However I have used Blue Dot in that caliber no problem. I generally load 180g lead or plated. Also a great powder for 10mm.