Boresighters and 'on the paper'

[blackdragon]

When everyone talks about boresighters, they say they get you 'on the paper', and then you can fine tune.

I had an el-cheapo boresighter, and it got me on the paper, assuming the paper was 10' x 10'.

I want something more accurate...but how accurate are they? I know 1moa is unreasonable, but would they be at least 8" at 100yards?

I'm leaning to a laser sighter, with a bore spud since they can be used with pistols as well -- or do the collameter(sp?) ones like the leuopold magnetic also work with pistol scopes?

Keith

 

[AK103K]

I'm to cheap to buy a bore sighter or have someone do it. I just look down the bore and dial it on, or use the irons and dial it on. I've never had any trouble doing it this way and have always been "on the paper" when I first shoot it. I do usually shoot the first couple of shots at 25 or 50 yards though.

 

[strambo]

I'm with AK103K, I do it the same way and shoot at 25 yards...always hit any resonable target (24"X24" is plenty) then dial it close at 25. Then at 100 it should be on paper with any rifle...fine tune from there. I haven't tried to go straight to 100 with this method, but I only shoot 2 or 3 rounds at 25yds (no need for groups) so it's no big deal.

 

[Darkside]

Boresighter Rant.

I just have to get this off my chest, so if I may.....

To me bore sighting is like the guys a NASA saying "for the Satern 5 rocket to get to the moon, it must be pointed that way, pointing at the moon with their finger".

I don't know how many times durring deer season I hear a person who shot AT a deer and after missing or injuring the deer say "the guy at the gunshop bore sighted it for me and he said it was DEAD ON at 100 yards".

I haven't yet figured out why any ethical hunter would spend hard earned money on a firearm, ammo, game tag, gas...ect. and not spend the money and time to put some rounds downrange at the most reasonable distance they plan to hunt. I feel that if I am going to take any one of the fine animals that our creator has put on this earth, that I owe it to the animal to do it as quickly and in such a manner as to prevent undue suffering to the animal. Yes, it may require an extra 10-20 or 100 rounds to be fired and it may take an afternoon to do it.(would you rather be at work?) But the confidence gained in the firearm and my ability to use it properly is what I accomplish. When the time comes for me to pull the trigger I KNOW where the bullet will land if I do everything right.

I know I will probably get flamed for this attitude but THAT is my belief and nobody will change it.

I also know that some will say that "on paper at 100 yards is close enough" and I will respond with only if you make a Perfect shot since the commonly accepted broadside kill area is just a little bigger than a 8 1/2"x 11" piece of paper. My perfect target on a Whitetail deer is about 3"x4" the heart any thing outside this area is insurance. RANT MODE OFF

I use a modified "one shot zero" style to sight in my rifles. Some one is going to mention that I fire more than one shot, yes, that is why I called it modified.

Off a stable rest I look through the bore on bolt guns at a target at 25 yards and adjust the sights accordingly, then fire one good shot. On rifles where you cannot look through the bore I just fire one good shot at 25 yards. Now with the rifle held with the sights/crosshairs on the aiming spot I have a friend adjust the sights TOO the bullet hole/point of impact(POI) in the target and fire another good shot. I like most of my bullets hitting dead on or a little high at 25 yards from my rifles. If the shots are hitting dead on I move to 50 Yards and fire one good shot just to check that the bullets are hitting straight up from the point of aim(POA), if not I repeat adjusting sights to bullet hole. At 100 yards I fine tune the POI with three shot groups on hunting rifles and 5 shot groups for Bench guns. This "one shot method" can be used from 100 yards if you can see the POI in your scope, it helps to ues a 4'x4' piece of cardboard or paper. And yes, I have seen a "gunshop boresighted" rifle that couldn't hit a 4'x4' piece of paper at 100 yards.(I will not mention the name of the shop that did that one)

Boresighting is just a place to start, not the end-all of sighting in a firearm.

Flame on.....

Darkside

 

[Darkside]

I guess I jumped to the conclusion that you were sighting in a hunting rifle..My bad.

If you are not sighting in a hunting firearm, and instead a Firearm that will be used for Protection, Plinking or fun, what is it going to hurt by popping off a few more rounds. It might cost a couple dollars more but what the heck, use them to really focus on trigger control, sight allignment ect...

I just don't understand the big rage of boresighter and their use.

Maybe another way for the guys at the gunshop to get an extra 20-25 dollars in their pocket for mounting and boresighting.(which is another story for latter)

Darkside

 

[Wildalaska]

I just don't understand the big rage of boresighter and their use.

When PROPERLY done, it ENSURES your first shot will be close to point of aim saving time and ammo for sighting in

Maybe another way for the guys at the gunshop to get an extra 20-25 dollars in their pocket for mounting and boresighting.(which is another story for latter)

Yep, exactly..its sooooo simple to mount a scope....

Thats why 3 out of every 5 we get are a remount from a bubba scope mounting job

Try EAW mounts some time and you will see why we charge $100 for those mount jobs....

WildeveryoneisanexpertAlaska

 

[Darkside]

I understand all to well the bubbas scope mounting thing The 15 min. scope mounting job I have see done at some gunshope give me the whillies I don't know how many times I have see guys use the scope to turn in Redfield rings.

I am not doubting the "When Properly done" part. I just don't understand why it is such a big deal, when it is so easily done at the range.

I don't want to appear like I have something against all the guys at gunshops and their 15min. scope mount jobs. I have seen the jobs done buy some of the guys and they were done very well, but they took their time, usually 30-60 min. on Redfield rings and bases. When I mount Redfields I will take me anywhere from 30-60 min. to do the job right. This does not include lapping.

I have never heard of EAW mounts so I cannot comment on that mounting system.

Darkside

 

[444]

I don't know a whole lot about boresighters or lasers. In theory, it sounds good: you spend less time and ammo getting the rifle zeroed.
On the other hand, buying one IMO is expensive for what you get.
For me, it is much easier and cheaper to just go to a range and dial in the sights: if you think about what you are doing.
As was mentioned, there are several ways to quickly dial in your sights or scope without firing a lot of ammo.
The way I do it is to place a target at 25 yards. This almost ensures that I will be on paper with the first shot. I fire two shots just to make sure the shots were good. I then measure where that group is in realation to my aiming point. Sometimes I guess, sometimes I take out a Leatherman tool that has a scale on the back of it and actually measure, somethtimes I use a target that has a grid with 1" squares. I KNOW how much my sights move the POI with one click: a scope might be 1/4 minute, or 1/2 minute. My M1 and M1A rear sights move the POI one full minute. I KNOW how many minutes I need to move my sight to bring the POI to the POA. I also have a good idea where this close range zero will put my bullet at my desired zero: for example, with my M1 or M1a I know that a zero at 25 METERS will be very close to my 200 meter zero. I know with my AR15s that a 50 meter zero will be very close to my final zero at around 230 meters. So at this point, all I need to do is confirm my zero at the desired range. This can be done with as little as 3-4 rounds total.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

I wouldn't be without one to check zero quietly

I wouldn't be without one to check zero quietly but:
I wonder

(1) how many folks even center their reticule and know the height above bore for their line of sight and how that relates to any particular point on the boresighter's grid or other image?

(2) having done all that do the calculations to get best results from the boresighter?

- bearing in mind that different loads will shoot to different points of aim anyway!

I'm reluctant to stick too many spuds down my muzzles as well.