I am reloading a lot of .45LC brass that I bought as loaded ammo from National Bullet in Ohio (nice co btw). The brass is all mixed head stamps and some of it is nickle plated. Does anyone have a preference for the plated stuff? It seems to me that it cleans up better but other than that I havent noticed any differences. Opinions?
Brass vs Nickle cases
- Thread starter The Rabbi
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redneck2
Member
Go to Varmint Al's website and read about nickle. You'll never use it again
dodgestdshift
Member
Nickeled cases, in my experience, tend to flake after a couple of loadings.
Malone LaVeigh
Member
Got a link?
How's this for a start.
Ed
FORGET NICKEL-PLATED BRASS.... I liked the looks and feel of nickel-plated cases, but I don't load them anymore and here is why. The cases are strong and it is easy enough to outside neck turn them. That is not the problem. The nickel-plating on the case neck ID is like sandpaper. The only way you might be able to remove this grit is with a case neck ID reamer if you have a "tight neck" chamber and enough neck wall thickness to work with. If you have a loaded nickel-plated round laying around and don't believe me, just pull the bullet. It will look like you pulled it out of a tube of 180 grit wet/dry sandpaper. If you pull the bullet out of a brass case mouth that has been carefully chamfered and polished with the steel wool process above, it will be essentially like out of the bullet box. Want copper in the barrel? Start by sanding the surface of those nice polished precision bullets. Try it with a Moly Coated bullet and it is even worse; the nickel-plated cases scrape off the Moly. The nickel-plated case neck IDs don't get any better after you reload them a few times. They are still like sandpaper. Think about a few of those nickel pieces of grit imbedding into the copper of the bullet and what they do to your rifle barrel! I have heard that the nickel is hard enough to score some reloading dies and also wear down the expander ball. Any metal that hard, should be kept away from your precision barrel. I have heard that some people have had success in removing the nickel plate from the neck IDs with a stainless steel brush and a drill motor. I haven't tried it.
MORE ABOUT NICKEL PLATING.... This is interesting about the mechanical properties of the nickel plating:
Electroless nickel plating is a process for chemically applying nickel-alloy deposits onto metallic substrates using an auto catalytic immersion process without the use of electrical current.
Hardness and Wear Resistance
One of the most important properties for many applications is hardness. As deposited, the micro-hardness of electroless nickel coatings is about 500 to 700 HK100. That is approximately equal to 45 to 58 HRC and equivalent to many hardened alloy steels. Heat treatment causes these alloys to precipitation harden and can produce hardness values as high as 1100 HK100, equal to most commercial hard chromium coatings.
Note that if you anneal your nickel plated necks, you are hardening the nickel plating. It can be harder than many alloyed steels before you anneal and can increase is hardness as much as 2 fold by precipitation hardening. I sure wouldn't want those tiny little hard pieces inside the neck getting embedded in the bullet's copper surface and then fire lapping my nice shiny barrel.
Ed
FORGET NICKEL-PLATED BRASS.... I liked the looks and feel of nickel-plated cases, but I don't load them anymore and here is why. The cases are strong and it is easy enough to outside neck turn them. That is not the problem. The nickel-plating on the case neck ID is like sandpaper. The only way you might be able to remove this grit is with a case neck ID reamer if you have a "tight neck" chamber and enough neck wall thickness to work with. If you have a loaded nickel-plated round laying around and don't believe me, just pull the bullet. It will look like you pulled it out of a tube of 180 grit wet/dry sandpaper. If you pull the bullet out of a brass case mouth that has been carefully chamfered and polished with the steel wool process above, it will be essentially like out of the bullet box. Want copper in the barrel? Start by sanding the surface of those nice polished precision bullets. Try it with a Moly Coated bullet and it is even worse; the nickel-plated cases scrape off the Moly. The nickel-plated case neck IDs don't get any better after you reload them a few times. They are still like sandpaper. Think about a few of those nickel pieces of grit imbedding into the copper of the bullet and what they do to your rifle barrel! I have heard that the nickel is hard enough to score some reloading dies and also wear down the expander ball. Any metal that hard, should be kept away from your precision barrel. I have heard that some people have had success in removing the nickel plate from the neck IDs with a stainless steel brush and a drill motor. I haven't tried it.
MORE ABOUT NICKEL PLATING.... This is interesting about the mechanical properties of the nickel plating:
Electroless nickel plating is a process for chemically applying nickel-alloy deposits onto metallic substrates using an auto catalytic immersion process without the use of electrical current.
Hardness and Wear Resistance
One of the most important properties for many applications is hardness. As deposited, the micro-hardness of electroless nickel coatings is about 500 to 700 HK100. That is approximately equal to 45 to 58 HRC and equivalent to many hardened alloy steels. Heat treatment causes these alloys to precipitation harden and can produce hardness values as high as 1100 HK100, equal to most commercial hard chromium coatings.
Note that if you anneal your nickel plated necks, you are hardening the nickel plating. It can be harder than many alloyed steels before you anneal and can increase is hardness as much as 2 fold by precipitation hardening. I sure wouldn't want those tiny little hard pieces inside the neck getting embedded in the bullet's copper surface and then fire lapping my nice shiny barrel.
LAH
Member
Rabbi I've not loaded 44 or 45 Colt using nickle cases. I have however loaded lots of 38 and 357. The nickle cases do seem to fail quicker, mostly case mouths splits but plenty of sidewall blowouts also. I'd load your nickle brass instead of getting rid of it though if I was buying brass, new or once fired, I would shy away from nickle. This will save you money.
Poodleshooter
Member
I get frequent case mouth splits with nickle cases in my .357's. I shoot them as range pickups, but wouldn't purposefully buy them for reloading.
popbang
Member
I wouldn't call it an urban legend. Brass cases loaded to a moderate loading in 45 Colt with a 230 grain bullet over 9 grains of Universal giving ~920 fps have lasted for 26 loadings and are still going strong. Nickle plated started flaking and was retired at 12 loadings. All cases were Starline and started as new. I still find that nickle cases are the ones I want for uses where reloading the firearm is a factor, as they seem to drop out with minimal pressure.
Mark whiz
Member
I really have to disagree with most of the knocks against nickel brass.
I've reloaded a BUNCH of nickel pistol brass (mainly .38Spcl & .357Mag) and have never seen one flake of plating come off nor have I ever thrown out one case due to it being unserviceable.
I've also reloaded a set of Win .308 nickel brass which began life as 2 boxes of their Silvertip (CT) loaded ammo. I reloaded them about 15 times and annealed them after every 3 reloadings. The only problem that brass ever gave me was the primer pockets wearing out and not holding the primers tight enough to get the job done. Funny thing though, that Winchester brass was VERY light - weighing in around 155gr and opposed to about 179gr for Lake City brass.....................so maybe the thinner walls made them more serviceable for the long term.
But that's just my experiences.
I've reloaded a BUNCH of nickel pistol brass (mainly .38Spcl & .357Mag) and have never seen one flake of plating come off nor have I ever thrown out one case due to it being unserviceable.
I've also reloaded a set of Win .308 nickel brass which began life as 2 boxes of their Silvertip (CT) loaded ammo. I reloaded them about 15 times and annealed them after every 3 reloadings. The only problem that brass ever gave me was the primer pockets wearing out and not holding the primers tight enough to get the job done. Funny thing though, that Winchester brass was VERY light - weighing in around 155gr and opposed to about 179gr for Lake City brass.....................so maybe the thinner walls made them more serviceable for the long term.
But that's just my experiences.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I'm sure some of my oldest brass has been reloaded fifty times.
cheygriz
member
I'm going to go against the flow here. I like nickle cases. In my experience they are just as good as brass, or better. They don't wear your dies or chamber as much, and when the nickle starts coming off, so what? I've got some .38s that have been loaded more than 40 times. They were nickle once, but now they're brass, because the nickle wore off. No big deal!
You will notice that virtually all premium handgun ammo for law enforcement is nickle. Gotta be a reason for that!
You will notice that virtually all premium handgun ammo for law enforcement is nickle. Gotta be a reason for that!
243_shooter
Member
I've got a ton of nickle that I got with my reloading stuff (got it all used). I've been on a 357 kick lately. Shooting NBC 158 LSWC's at ~1100 fps with a good heavy roll crimp.
I'm currently on loading #10 and am starting to experience split case mouths. Time to toss 'em and get some fresh brass I guess.
They seem to be perfectly acceptable, and shure are pretty, but I think I'm going to invest in some starline brass and see what I get for life out of them. I tend to go a bit heavy on the crimp sometimes I think, so who knows.
I would certainly use what you've got.
Leo
I'm currently on loading #10 and am starting to experience split case mouths. Time to toss 'em and get some fresh brass I guess.
They seem to be perfectly acceptable, and shure are pretty, but I think I'm going to invest in some starline brass and see what I get for life out of them. I tend to go a bit heavy on the crimp sometimes I think, so who knows.
I would certainly use what you've got.
Leo
BluesBear
member
Years agoâ„¢ when I was reloading commercially I loaded several hundred thousand nickel cases. Many of them of unknown vintage or usage.
I had 50 round lots of matched brass that I used strictly for testing. 50/50 nickel & brass from all manufacturers.
Most of my brass had been loaded 30, 40 or more times.
I found that excessive belling of the mouth was the biggest culprit in split mouths. Followed by excessive crimping.
By expanding just enough to get the bullet started I have longer case life. I didn't need to crimp as hard since I still had plenty of case tension.
I have noticed that many people crimp too much. There's a fine line between plenty and too much.
Yes nickel will split slightly sooner than brass. If you load nickel and brass exactly the same, and if you work the mouths too much you'll get failures.
But by the time nickel splits brass has weakened to the point of crimp failure.
The nickel only splits because the underlying brass is already failing.
As for the so called roughness on the inside of nickeled cases...
If you tumble or vibrate your cases the inside gets cleaned and polished too.
I had 50 round lots of matched brass that I used strictly for testing. 50/50 nickel & brass from all manufacturers.
Most of my brass had been loaded 30, 40 or more times.
I found that excessive belling of the mouth was the biggest culprit in split mouths. Followed by excessive crimping.
By expanding just enough to get the bullet started I have longer case life. I didn't need to crimp as hard since I still had plenty of case tension.
I have noticed that many people crimp too much. There's a fine line between plenty and too much.
Yes nickel will split slightly sooner than brass. If you load nickel and brass exactly the same, and if you work the mouths too much you'll get failures.
But by the time nickel splits brass has weakened to the point of crimp failure.
The nickel only splits because the underlying brass is already failing.
As for the so called roughness on the inside of nickeled cases...
If you tumble or vibrate your cases the inside gets cleaned and polished too.
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