Brit in US

[Carl N. Brown]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/ma.../ixportal.html

Licence to kill - life under the gun in the US

By Jarek Garlinski

(Filed: 01/03/2006)

I for one am disturbed to read reports of elderly homeowners in
England being prosecuted for defending their property and
themselves against intruders or teenage vandals.

Tony Martin was prosecuted for "laying in wait" to ambush two
teenege burglars with a improperly papered shotgun. Also, he
told conflicting stories to the police and was caught in a lie.
Self defense was not the primary issue with police in the Tony
Martin case, although the pro- and anti- gun media made it so.
Several British farmers who have shot burglars caught in the act
using legal guns and who did not lie to the investigating officers
have been found justified and have had no charges brought against
them during the duration of the Tony Martin publicity. Tony
Martin was an unusual case and unique person--like Bernard Goetz
in New York City--and the media focuses on "man-bites-dog" stories,
not on how things really go down in real life.
reports of elderly homeowners in England being prosecuted
for defending their property and themselves against intruders
all seem to be repeated reorts of the Tony Martin case and Martin's
neighbors telling reporters that Martin did what he did because
the local law was not properly patrolling neighbors, they did not
feel safe and they could not blame Martin.
I have located about one hundred news articles on the Martin
case, read thoroughly about 10 percent, and just arranging the
headlines in chronological order is interesting. There is also
a "Householders and the use of force against intruders: a Joint
Public Statement from the Crown Prosecution Service and the
Association of Chief Police Officers" which the news media will
not promote like the exaggerated pro- and con- Tony Martin stories.
To summarize: if the Crown Prosecution Service and Chief Police
Officers stick by their statement, Brits have more slightly more
latitude in self defense against intruders than I do in Tennessee
as a HCP (handgun carry permit) holder, particularly in the area
of pursuit of intruder to regain stolen property and use of force
in effecting a citizen's arrest.
UK and US news media, particularly based in London or New York
City, misreport anything to do with guns, with a view to promote
gun control as a knee-jerk matter of editorial room ideology.
Unfortunately, pressure for laws is often the result of yellow
journalism and not the result of facts or rational thought, and
not just about guns.

Ideological viewpoints on guns divorced from reality are not limited
to UK:

COMMENTARY

By JOHN R. MacARTHUR

The Providence Journal


NEW YORK - Last March, I traveled for the first time
to the northeastern corner of Tennessee, a part of
the country I associate with scrawny dogs, fundamentalist
preachers and scary, gun-toting adherents to the
frontier "patriotism" of Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett.
But mostly it makes me think of guns.

Of course, I know my stereotypes about this part
of the South to be unfair, that scenes from the movie
"Deliverance" are in fact just scenes from a Hollywood
movie made by slick and cynical Northerners. Not
everyone in rural or small-town Tennessee carries
a gun. In any case, who was I to be feeling paranoid
in Sullivan County, Tenn.? I live in one of the most
violent cities in America -- New York -- where children
carry guns and use them to redress frivolous slights,
while the police are among the most trigger-happy
in the nation. I rarely feel worried walking down
the street in Manhattan -- and I never think about
the huge number of guns that might be used against me.

Besides, my wife and I were on a business trip in
the heavily industrial part of Kingsport. More than
ever these days, the old regional differences between
supposedly violent redneck South and "socially advanced"
North have been flattened or erased altogether by
franchise shopping, interstate highways and chain
hotels designed to reassure people like me that sameness
is the greatest American virtue. Nobody in the Tri-Cities
region was going to pull a gun on me.

But prejudice dies hard, and I was decidedly spooked
when we crossed the crest of the Appalachians from
North Carolina on U.S. Highway 23, for the time being
still a difficult, snaking two-lane hill climb hugged
by old-fashioned "home-cooking" cafes that looked
less than inviting to a visiting Northerner -- especially
one with liberal beliefs and a fervent commitment
to gun control. Behind the down-home mountain culture
of hospitality lay, I imagined, a wilder, primitive
culture of resentful Bible thumpers whose commitment
to the U.S. Constitution extended only to the Second
Amendment and the establishment clause of the First.

But while these biases and fears make me feel downright
unpatriotic, not to mention ungenerous, I can't say
that my stereotype was entirely unjustified -- that
my American culture and the East Tennessee version
might be just as different as Japan's and South Africa's.
For when I checked into the Marriott Meadowview Resort
and Convention Center, the first thing my wife and
I noticed was the sign promoting the gun-and-knife
show scheduled to take place the following day. Of
course, being ironic city folks, instead of getting
nervous we laughed about it and then laughed again
over dinner at Skoby's Restaurant, the closest thing
to a celebrity hangout in town. (Even if we didn't
see any celebrities, we knew Skoby's was a hotspot
because the owners had prepared a brochure informing
the public that Willard Scott, Richard Petty, Tammy
Wynette and Pat Summitt, "Head Coach of the Lady
Vols," had all eaten there.)

By the time we went to bed back at the hotel, my
ironic condescension toward Kingsport and its citizens
was in full swing.

I'd even picked up a book by Patty Smithdeal Fulton
titled "I Wouldn't Live Nowhere I Couldn't Grow Corn,"
a collection of her columns from the Jonesborough
Herald and Tribune that purported to exhibit Mrs.
Fulton's homespun wisdom and humor. Who's afraid
of the scary old South after reading that sort of
treacle?

But the next day, my snobbish attitude changed abruptly.
The gun-and-knife show was attracting a bigger crowd
than I had expected, and I found myself in the parking
lot among small knots of men dressed in camouflage
fatigues, many hefting one and even two rifles against
their shoulders. From the look of them, they might
have just finished locking and loading at a Pat Buchanan
campaign rally.

In the foyer of the convention center, the scene
was even more alarming. The men in the parking lot
evidently had failed upon leaving the building to
heed the sign that exhorted: "No Guns Past This Point!!!"
Nearby, another sign explained, "Tables for Eating
Only!" In case you didn't understand the reasoning,
written beneath two crude depictions of a hamburger
and a hot dog there appeared the further instruction,
"No Guns on Tables."

I could see why the organizers were concerned about
guns being placed casually amid the silverware: Many
of the show's registrants had brought their small
children to join in the fun. Sophisticated city slicker
that I am, walled off by my sense of the absurd,
I still thought that these signs and these parents
were very frightening and very depressing.

There is no purpose in preaching here about the American
gun culture. The argument against guns is made again
and again, year in and year out, to very little effect.
If the assassinations of the liberals Martin Luther
King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy and the near-murders
of the conservatives George Wallace and Ronald Reagan
failed to galvanize the country against the gun lobby,
then nothing will. The Second Amendment (which even
liberal anti-gun legal scholars will concede really
means what it says) isn't likely ever to be repealed.

But since the Minuteman began the Revolutionary War
with musket fire -- I feel emboldened to make a modest
proposal to break the impasse about gun ownership
in America. I suggest a historic compromise between
North and South that would permit the saving of many
lives in big Northern cities and provide endless
gratification for gun lovers south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

I propose that in exchange for unlimited ownership
of long-barreled firearms, including assault rifles,
the Southern politicians, who abort every serious
gun-control initiative, agree to support a bill that
bans all handguns and sawed-off shotguns everywhere.

I'm sure the legalization of assault rifles would
upset a few liberals, but they well understand that
most gun violence is wreaked by hidden pistols and
pistols lying around on the table at home. And they
know that maintaining the ban on assault rifles is
mere window-dressing, just a dodge for politicians
like President Clinton who want to play both sides
of the fence.

If all we gun-control advocates can ever hope to
do is try to reduce deaths by firearms, then let's
give the states of the Old Confederacy their due.
Let them lock and load at will, as long as we can
see the glint of their rifle barrels.

-------------------------------------------------
John R. MacArthur, a monthly contributor, is
publisher of Harper's Magazine and a New York-based
author. He wrote this for the Providence Journal.
-------------------------------------------------

In the year Mr. MacArthur visited Sullivan County,
Tennessee, the 1999 population of 149,000 had 0 homicides,
for a homicide rate of 0 per 100,000 population per year,
signicantly lower and that of gun control capitol New
York City. Kingsport's first murder in FOUR YEARS was when
a recent immigrant father was stabbed in the leg in a
domestic situation and bled to death on the way to the
hospital. In other years our homicide rate has failed to
reach national average or New York City levels. To have a
condescending anti-gun damn Yankee from one the centers of
gun hatred and high homicide rate, New York City, propose
to prohibit my handguns from his narrowminded, blindered
viewpoint is a little galling.

 

[Bacon]

California, especially San Francisco and surrounding areas, has been a Mecca for New Yorkers for close to 40 years. Among other things I disdain, they have brought their elitist anti-gun attitude with them.

When a Native Californian has to listen to all the ignorant remarks that come from easterners about his home state it gets doubly frustrating. The same hypocrites that caused our political difficulties are now pointing the finger and blaming California for todays problems. If anyone has the right to complain about outsiders coming in and wrecking things, it would be a Native Californian.

Barbara Boxer - from New York City

Nancy Pelosie - from Maryland

Chris Daly (SF Supervisor that came up with Prop H) - from Washington DC

There's plenty more but you get the idea.

 

[Hawken50]

I suggest a historic compromise between North and South that would permit the saving of many lives in big Northern cities and provide endless gratification for gun lovers south of the Mason-Dixon Line

macaurther would do well to realize that many people in his own back yard feel the same as those "gun lovers south of the Mason-Dixon Line."

 

[Don Gwinn]

His proposal is moronic and his attempt to put on airs of education by linking his stupidity to Swift's brilliance is an insult.

All done with this guy.

 

[Stand_Watie]

Even a blind pig finds a truffle every now and then.

The Second Amendment (which even
liberal anti-gun legal scholars will concede really
means what it says) isn't likely ever to be repealed.

 

[mountainclmbr]

I work with 2 people that grew up in Manhatten. They both have the attitude that non NY'ers are backward hicks. Plenty of negative mention about guns. I have not even tried to talk politics or social issues with them. I wouldn't even know how to start.

 

[geekWithA.45]

The article is proof positive that some people simply can't check their gross biases at the door.

 

[beerslurpy]

Hey, I spent the first 18 years of my life in Manhattan, attending liberal public schools. But look how I turned out- I hate big government and I live in the conservative south and like it. And I own guns, all of which are evil and black.

Dont forget that not everyone that fled NYC did so to export communism. Many of us left because we dont want to live that way and couldnt afford it anyway. My parents still live in the city and pay something like 40 percent of their gross income to the government, and they give the full 401k amount (which is essentially a 15 percent deduction).

 

[Waitone]

The article's author said nothing about the gun culture that causes sleepless nights amongst the ruling class. Last year there were more than 5,000 gunshows in the US. At any given time more people are actively engaged in gun culture activities than are engaged in politics. The focus of that public activity is the gunshow. And that gentle reader is why the ruling class labors mightly to shut down gunshows.

 

[agricola]

Link appeared broken to me.

Its refreshing though to see that even the Torygraph is publishing articles that acknowledge Tony Martin was (a) blatantly guilty and (b) blatantly lied, and that as a consequence (c) most of the media output regarding that case was, to put it mildly, rubbish.

 

[Calumus]

On a slightly different note, does this person think that Democrat= liberal and
Republican= conservative? They name JFK as a liberal but if I remember my history correctly he was to the right of where most republicans seem to be today. I do have a copy of the letter he got from the then presidant of the NRA giving him a lifetime membership, and his response expressing his gratitude and praising the NRA for their good works. I think this guy should have a chat with Zell Miller about some of the "liberals" of old. Could be an eye opener for him. Just a random observation. Cheers,
Shawn

 

[LAK]

Several British farmers who have shot burglars caught in the act using legal guns and who did not lie to the investigating officers have been found justified and have had no charges brought against them during the duration of the Tony Martin publicity

Like who? Not that I doubt it. It's not who you are - it's who you know. The same all over the world. Tony Martin didn't have any of the right connections or friends.

His farm and the area around it was plagued with the kind of thugs and crime that thirty years ago were rare enough to make local TV news when they manifested themselves. They were to be found in certain parts of the larger cities and some of the more working class seaside vacation resort towns. Even fifteen years ago it was extremely rare in rural Britain.

Like in this country, the judiciary in the U.K. is running an agenda. Consequently the thugs that were terrorizing Martin are now commonplace even in many parts of rural agricultural Britain. Beating old people to death in their homes, gang-rape etc have become regular features on the TV news, radio and newspapers - and this is the culture that has been creeping into the small country towns and surrounding rural areas.

There's a phrase that was in common use in Britain that was applied to people who fell off sea cliffs collecting birds' eggs or climbed into the polar bear pit at Chester zoo. It was "death by misadventure". One of these punks departed that way, the other got left behind and should be thanking God he has had a second chance.

The public servants and officials who took part in the imprisonment of Mr Martin ought to be doing about 20 years each, and Martin compensated with all their personal assets.

--------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[agricola]

LAK,

That is utter rubbish. Tony Martin was the exception to the rule, and the reason why he was the exception was that what he said happened - that he defended himself by firing at a torch shone upon him - was palpably false. As for "Like who?":

http://timlambert.org/2004/07/gullible4/

As for crime being "commonplace even in many parts of rural agricultural Britain. Beating old people to death in their homes, gang-rape etc have become regular features on the TV news, radio and newspapers" - perhaps the reason for that is the morbid fascination with such events shown by the media, and not because crime in rural areas is spiralling out of control.

 

[LAK]

agricola,

I lived in North Wales for 16 years, know good and well that if you had shot anyone in the U.K., even in the 1970s and 80s you were in for an uphill legal problem, had more than a few "problems" with the North Wales Police over other firearms issues, and have seen the Crown Prosecution Service in action.

Having followed the Martin story from the beginning it was obvious what these people had in store for him, as it is for most other ordinary folk.

The rural crime problem is climbing rapidly, and the traditional rural police manning being very low, they are not anywhere near up to coping with it.

If you think that the rural crime problem is something different, perhaps it is you that is using popular media as a sole basis for judgement. In some of the better policed areas of the south of England and Scotland it is less severe, but in other areas things are not quite the same.

Similar crimes have risen even more rapidly in the smaller towns that twenty years ago were completely different places.

------------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[gunsmith]

I am a native newyorker too

I miss some of the diners and the music scene and the pretty girls...but not enough to go back.

When I left NY I was an anarchist who voted Democrat and attended every single wacky left wing demo that I could, but I wasn't anti gun I knew that you can not fight those "evil" right wingers without them....20 years later I am a Pro Life Conservative and gun nut who thinks GW is to far to the left!

I would like to visit but I refuse to go anywhere without my gun...you see, like alot of ny'ers I gotta big mouth, in some places (the lower east side) an American flag lapel pin and a NRA hat might get you attacked.

the one exception is I visit sick and dying relatives....one of the things that comes with age I have a lot of sick dying relatives right now