Browning Hi-Power problems

[HappyHunting]

Good evening everyone and I hope you wished your mothers a good day.
My dad has had a Browning Hi-Power for the last 20 or so years that has FTE malfunctions at least once per magazine. This has resulted in him colonizing my Sig P220 which has never failed in the 1000 rounds we have put through it. I want to get his gun shooting true again for those two reasons, but I want to have some sort of idea as to what could be causing FTE malfunctions (spring, bad mags etc.). Any help would be appreciated. If you need more details I can get those and a picture if it would help.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. It is difficult to diagnose from a distance, but is this happening with all 9mm ammunition or just one specific load? The reason I ask is that since the mid-'70's or so, the Hi Power mainspring has been 32-lbs. Some lighter loads might not have enough "oomph" to drive the slide rearward enough for the fired case to strike the ejector and a failure-to-eject occurs.

With Hi Powers failing to extract, the culprit can be a barely adequate extractor claw to be sure, but most of the time when I've seen this, the cause was either a (large) build-up of crud beneath the extractor or a weak extractor spring...or both. Cleaning beneath the extractor might solve the problem. It is also possible that the extractor pad needs to be lightly dressed down to allow the claw to get a bigger "bite" of the case rim. Just hard to say w/o actually examining the pistol.

With your thumb nail, push inward on the rear of the extractor, forcing it it pivot its claw outward at the front end. This should require quite a bit of force. If it is easily done, the spring is probably too light. It has been my experience that Hi Power extractor springs need to be strong to insure reliable extraction. IF this turns out to be the case, replace the spring. The time or two I've needed to do this, I used the Wolff extra power Hi Power extractor springs.

Best to you and good luck.

 

[RONSERESURPLUS]

Good Sudguestions all, why not just drop in a Wolff Kit for the Browning Hi power that will replace the mainspring, the recial spring Firing pin spriand the Extractor spring for like 15$! Thats what I'd do, plus then you can swop 1 at a time and see if they fit it, if not, you still have great spare parts items once day you will need and do the low cost step by step correction, if this fails to fix it, yes, I'd try different ammo or take to a smith!


RON

 

[DWhitehorne]

Hard to follow up after Stephen Camp but I'll throw in my 2 cents. I've had a FM and FN Hi Powers that had extraction/ejection problems. The FM would always fail to throw out the last or second to last fired case from the ejection port. I had a mix of 13 round mystery mags, so I bought a brand new mecgar mag from Brownells and never had an issued with the FM again. I had a FN hi power that would fail to extract and I thought it was a mag problem again. I tried my new mecgar and still had issues. I ordered a hi power extractor ($20) and a new extractor spring ($6) from Brownells and changed them out. I found out I really didn't need the extractor but figured for $20 bucks why not replace it. I will say I bought the pistol used and was amazed at the black crud that was in the extractor channel around the spring. After replacing the spring and extractor everything was perfect. I think if you can rule out a magazine spring issue, an extractor spring replacement will turn your Hi Power into a sewing maching. David

 

[HappyHunting]

Thanks everyone for your input. The plot thickens, as he said he hadn't taken it down and cleaned it in about 10 years. After a good cleaning of the moving parts, I'm going to kill some silhouettes tomorrow at our private outdoor and unofficial range (meaning an empty field in the county) and I hope that will help with extraction.
Another problem with the Hi-Power it is that there is about an 8'' spread from only 15 yards. Even for HD that is extreme so any help on that would be good too. On a 1911 that huge inaccuracy would be barrel to slide fit, so I assume that it is similar problems maybe with different terminology. He said it has never shot well, so he has never enjoyed the pistol. I would like to make it a tack-driver as I'm sure it's capable of being when assembled correctly.

 

[takhtakaal]

BHPs generally aren't tack drivers. They were designed for accuracy that was acceptable under combat conditions, not match conditions. Most decent 1911s will shoot rings around them in slow-fire applications.

 

[Oldnoob]

1) Clean your gun
2) Check with different ammo
3) Check with different magazine
4) Replace the recoil spring
5) Time to call the CS or local smith

Usually when FTF./FTE, this are the steps I suggest.

 

[Coronach]

BHPs generally aren't tack drivers. They were designed for accuracy that was acceptable under combat conditions, not match conditions. Most decent 1911s will shoot rings around them in slow-fire applications.

OK, but 8" at 15yds seems pretty extreme, assuming that the shooter is able to keep groups with other handguns tighter. As always, separating mechanical accuracy from shooter ability is problematic, as few people actually own a Ransom rest.

Mike

 

[Oldnoob]

BHPs generally aren't tack drivers. They were designed for accuracy that was acceptable under combat conditions, not match conditions. Most decent 1911s will shoot rings around them in slow-fire applications.

Respectfully disagree. Accuracy in handgun rely on the shooter. Only way to argue the accuracy is to use pistol stand that take the shooter out of equation (ie: like ransom stand).

Of course a decent 1911 come with a great trigger, and that will help the shooter. But trigger is one of the thing shooter can over come or get used to. Bottom line, in the most pistol shooting range (let say under 50 feet) there are no different between a $500 pistol and a $1500 decent 1911 as long as shoot do their part.

An example I like to use is Hickok45, a well known shooter on Youtube can achieve shots on a target out of 230 YARD with his stock Glock 27. Now give you Baer to an average shooter and he/she won't even hit a target out of 230 FEET.

 

[Oldnoob]

Thanks everyone for your input. The plot thickens, as he said he hadn't taken it down and cleaned it in about 10 years. After a good cleaning of the moving parts, I'm going to kill some silhouettes tomorrow at our private outdoor and unofficial range (meaning an empty field in the county) and I hope that will help with extraction.
Another problem with the Hi-Power it is that there is about an 8'' spread from only 15 yards. Even for HD that is extreme so any help on that would be good too. On a 1911 that huge inaccuracy would be barrel to slide fit, so I assume that it is similar problems maybe with different terminology. He said it has never shot well, so he has never enjoyed the pistol. I would like to make it a tack-driver as I'm sure it's capable of being when assembled correctly.

Buddy, I don't know I should feel sorry for you dad or his Hi Power. BHP is my favor pistol so I'm sad to I hear it get mistreated like that and the owner just straight out not appreciate it. If you are close to me, I will offer to buy it off your father's hand.

No full length pistol should be shooting 8" spread out in 15 yard. Not Hi Power, not even hi point.

Wish you the best of luck. If you need any help on assemble/disassemble BHP, visit Mr. Stephen Camp's web site.

 

[chaddy187]

How much is one of these guns worth in great shape

 

[jonnyc]

Depends. Is it FN/Browning, or a clone? Which specific model and features? Great original shape or refinished shape? Also, condition can be a very subjective thing. Without knowing any of the above...anywhere between $299 and $1000 (possibly more or less).

 

[BHPshooter]

Could you be more specific? When you say it's having FTE malfunctions, do you mean failure to extract or failure to eject? Makes a big difference.

Regardless, my first step would be to detail strip it and give it a good cleaning.

Something I've learned working in gun shops over the last several years is that the biggest cause of malfunctions is lack of proper cleaning and maintenance.

Nine times out of ten, when a customer wanted to get rid of their gun because it "wouldn't stop jamming," or something similar, we'd buy it from him or take it in trade for something else, and it would go to the gunsmithing bench. We would clean it thoroughly and test fire it before putting it out for sale, and miraculously, it would run like a champ virtually every time. The amount of filth that accumulates in there over time is astonishing.

Most people are only comfortable field stripping their guns, which is fine, but all guns eventually need a detail strip and deep clean, especially if it gets shot a lot. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, take it to a gunsmith.

My point is, I'd start with cleaning first, and see if that solves it. If it doesn't, there has been an awful lot of good advice in this thread about what to do after that.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Wes

 

[Runningman]

Could you be more specific? When you say it's having FTE malfunctions, do you mean failure to extract or failure to eject? Makes a big difference.

It sure does. As it stands now original post is clear as mud.

 

[HappyHunting]

I'm new to the handgun terminology... the spent brass does not leave the breech after firing, so the new round cannot get into the chamber, which I assume would be more of a failure to eject than to extract. This is a genuine Browning Hi-Power, not a clone. I haven't had a chance to hit the range with it since the cleaning, as he has been busy. Hopefully tomorrow, but with a new day comes new things that have to be done.

 

[silversport]

if the spent brass does not leave the breach it is not EXTRACTING...it only ejects AFTER it has been extracted from the breach...don't worry...with a little more description and time you'll get it sorted out here...
Bill

 

[HappyHunting]

Range Report

This was the father son afternoon with the grown up toys while the girls went shopping. The Hi-Power continued to perform poorly. The first two magazines would eject the spent casing, but the next round would not enter the breech fully, preventing the slide from pushing it into the chamber and causing a jam. This happened about every other shot. The last magazine fired all 13 rounds without a problem, hinting that the mag springs were too weak after 25 years of being loaded. I have a picture of the breech during the problem but am having some issues getting it off of my phone. As always, the Sig P220 performed flawlessly and rubbed my thumb raw. This picture is of the last target... Just something to look at. Also noteworthy: I am a terrible photographer. Have a good weekend everybody.

 

[HappyHunting]

Just as I posted I sorted out the other picture. The slide is stuck in the back position. Also noteworthy: that is not my hand.

 

[silversport]

...well it sounds like you are describing a Failure to Feed and not the other things you initially described...we'll get it sorted out...what kind of ammo and the serial number of the gun might help...older Hi Power with a humped barrel and Hollow Point combination???
Bill