Buffalo Bore has officially released new rounds in 38/357

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Vanfunk,

Yep the wad cutters are shipping.

You wont have crimp jump happening on the 158gr. or the 150gr. wad cutters.

Yes, the first several shipments of wad cutters will weigh closer to 140gr.. It will take us several months to recut a set of molds and get them correct for the alloy we are using.

Thanks for the kind words.
 
Last night I ordered a box of the new .38 158 for my S&W37 as well as a box of the .357 158 for my S&W19-4 snubbie. If they perform as advertised (and I have every expectation that they will) then I will be buying more and putting these two revolvers back into the SD rotation.

It has been my experience that 158's, in addition to having great penetration, also shoot closest to POA out of these guns. Not a biggie with the 19-4, but almost a requirement for the small fixed sights on the 37.
 
photoman,

It is within standard SAAMI pressure spec., although it generates +P type velocities and energies.
 
Sistema,

Thanks for the order. Due to heavy ordering, we are a couple days behind on shipping. Yours will probably ship out by Friday.
 
Jim March sez:
I remain convinced that Tim should seek out respectable quality practice ammo that mimics the point of impact (not necessarily recoil level!) of his "good stuff", and either sell them himself or do a pointer to another vendor in exchange for a bit of commission.
I'll second that motion . . . :cool:

I'd even shoot some of the "good stuff" now and then, blowing up water jugs or whatever. I think the recycling truck will take used containers (#2 plastic) despite some bullet holes in them. :D
 
If there is a draw back to these new loads, it is that they still recoil like +P loads. While we are getting heavy bullets to +P speeds at non +P pressures, which is good for your revolver. We are still dealing with the physics of a bullet at a given weight, moving at a given velocity and those two factors combine to generate recoil.
 
Am I correct that these would be excellent .38 caliber rounds for an older S&W model 38 snubbie (the bodyguard airweight model before +P rating)?

It sounds like they were made for each other.

But maybe still too much recoil for my wife? She's recoil adverse. I tell her to use the heavier model 649 but she likes the light weight.

Currently I load I load it with 147 gr target wadcutter for her - the short rounds where the front of the bullet is flat with the brass.
 
Am I correct that these would be excellent .38 caliber rounds for an older S&W model 38 snubbie (the bodyguard airweight model before +P rating)?

Yup.

But maybe still too much recoil for my wife? She's recoil adverse.

Hmmmm. Well as Tim says, recoil ("pressure on your hand") is inverse to energy put into the bullet. The bullets are carrying energy levels equal to most +P rounds.

BUT: first, these aren't as strong as Buffalo Bore's +P rounds.

Second, the way you'll perceive the recoil on these standard pressure BuffBore's may be different from how they would feel from a similar-bullet-energy +P round.

Buffalo Bore's standard pressure 158 is similar in bullet energy, weight and shape to Remington's 158+P. In theory, the BuffBore's recoil should feel "nicer" in that the impact to your hand is spread out over more time. You should get more "push", less "slap". In order to avoid +P pressure, there is ONLY one choice Tim had to make: spread the push out over time to reduce peak pressure. He did it mainly with very careful powder selection.

What I don't know is how much of this "push versus slap" effect he's accomplished. It's possible the difference will be so marginal it's hard to detect. This "push versus slap" effect was first noticed by proponents of bigger-bore handguns to do the same power as smaller bore - for example, 45LC+P loaded to 44Mag-class power levels. The difference in how the recoil felt was VERY noticeable by early experimenters such as Dick Casull, John Linebaugh and Tim Sundles (years before he was selling ammo professionally). The 45LC loaded to about 32,000psi can do the same work a 44Mag needs 40,000psi to pull off per Linebaugh.

Of the three new BuffBore standard pressure choices, the lightest (125gr) *should* hurt the least in an ultralightweight gun. All three rounds should be significantly more useful for self defense than 148gr target wadcutters. She can still use those (mostly) for practice, though she should end every practice session with a cylinderfull of carry-grade ammo.
 
FELT recoil is so subjective, that it is impossible to tell how other people will percieve it. However, to me, the recoil of these new standard pressure HVY loads feels like most other +P loads. I'm sorta excited about hearing back from customers as to their perception of the felt recoil.
 
Felt recoil, to me, differs even by day. For instance, today my snub seemed to kick a LOT more than usual. Monday, when I last shot it, it felt great. It's odd how that happens. :scrutiny:

vynx, let me know if your wife likes them. My wife is also recoil averse, and I buy special 38 wadcutter loads for her, as well.
 
Jim March said:
Standard-pressure 38Spl ammo that reliably expands in snubbies is simply something we haven't had available for YEARS.

What I'd really like to see is a commercial HBWC loaded backwards at a reasonable power level.

A couple of decades ago, the "HydraShok Scorpion" was introduced, which was an HBWC with a center post that was, IMHO, irrelevant. But it was loaded to the performance levels of a mid-range wadcutter target load, which limited its effectiveness.

I found a load in one of the gun rags (maybe Gun World? Gun Sport?) which involved a hefty charge of SR4756 . . . I seated the old-style Hornady HBWC with about 1/8" sticking out of the case, and found the load clocked 1060 ft/sec out of a 2" M&P! (For obvious reasons, I'm not printing the load here . . . though I never had any problem, I'm a bit more timid these days!) I certainly wouldn't want to shoot it in an airweight J-frame, but for a .38 Special, the load was awesomely effective against fence posts, wetpack, and a rather large whitetail doe.

A modern version would, I believe, be a contender for the title of "Ultimate Snubbie Defense Load" in .38 Specials.
 
Hank,

I've messed around with up side down HB wad cutters. In some anti personel situations, I believe too much mushrooming is not good.
 
I had an 1972 edition of Speer's reloading manual. They had some hot loads for the snub .38. The best performance was achieved with the slower powders although speer said to expect terrific muzzle flash. I always thought the faster powders would give more velocity from a snub, but speer said no. I gave that book to an old friend of mine that does a lot of reloading.

I can tell all of you that I carry a snub .38 with wadcutters. I use them to kill dillas and other critters. I've shot dillas with just about every .38 load (convential) out there and the wadcutter outperforms anything I've tried. It really has a cookie cutter effect and dispatches them very quickly. I would expect the same in larger animals with a h/c wadcutter.
 
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