Building a Full Auto

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CT Yankee

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Hey all,

Sorry if this was posted before or if this isn't the correct place for this thread, but I have a question. Is it legal to build a full auto, or are pre '86 weapons the only ones allowed on the market. :confused: I heard something about this, but wasn't ready to believe it without proof. I looked here and on the ATF website, but couldn't find what I wanted, so I figured I'd ask here.

Thanks in advance far any replies! :)

CT Yankee
 
In the USA? Hysterically illicit, unless you have a manufacturer's license.

Mike
 
If you are John Q Citizen you can not "build" a new full-auto. This
includes building one from a parts kit or converting a semi to full.
There are various local, state, and federal laws regarding the
purchase of an existing full-auto. However, be prepared to
spend big bucks and sign your life away to the ATF :eek:

I bet that SKS is looking better now....
 
Actually, you can build one, if you don't mind being a guest for the next 20 years or so at one of our government's fine accommodations. :D
JT
 
Well, I figured it was too good to be true. :( Thanks for that link, though, rbernie. It will answer a lot of questions.
 
There are a lot of rumors and misinformation on this topic because of a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals case from a few years ago. The case was United States v. Stewart, 348 F.3d 1132 (9th Cir. 2003). In that case, Stewart was prosecuted and convicted for (among other things) possession of five machine guns that he had built himself, largely using parts that he machined in his own home. On appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, he argued that the law banning mere possession of a machine gun was unconstitutional because it was beyond Congress's enumerated Constitutional powers. The 9th Circuit agreed in a 2-1 decision and overturned his conviction. Ever since, the 'net has been full of chatter saying that it's o.k. to build machine guns yourself.

Your friendly federal government, however, did not take the 9th Circuit's ruling lying down. The feds immediately asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review the case, which granted a stay of the decision pending appeal. The stay meant that the case had no precedential effect, so no courts (not even those in the 9th Circuit) were required to follow it.

On June 13, 2005, the Supreme Court vacated the 9th Circuit's judgment and remand the case for further consideration in light of Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. ___ (2005). The Gonzales case was the one in which the Supreme Court ruled by a 6-3 vote that Congress had the authority under the Commerce Clause to prohibit the local growth and use of marijuana.

While the 9th Circuit has not acted on the remand, yet (it's been just a little over two months), the outcome is pretty much all but determined. In light of Gonzales, the 9th Circuit will have to reverse itself and affirm Stewart's conviction for illegal possession of a machine gun. Thus, the 9th Circuit's decision in Stewart has effectively been overturned.

The bottom line is that anyone who tells you it's o.k. to manufacture your own machine guns ain't telling the truth. They're probably just repeating misinformation that came about as a result of a federal court decision that has since been overturned.
 
If you go 24 miles offshore you can build anything you damn well please. Just don't try to bring it back. :evil:
 
How would this apply to making modifications to an existing full-auto? I've heard that you can use parts from an existing full auto gun to make a new full auto gun. That way nothing new comes onto the market. Its just the old gun in a new form. Any truth to this?

On a side note, what's a "sear gun"? I've seen the term used on full-auto web sites but never understood the term.
 
I'm not sure, but I believe in a "Sear Gun" the actual fire control group (auto sear) is registered as the NFA weapon, so they've taken an AR15 or ???? and dropped in the registered sear to make the weapon. The serial # on the gun isn't registered as a machine gun, but the parts within it are. (if that makes sense). I've never quite understood if there's an actual serial # placed on the sear or ?

Regards,
Dave
 
How would this apply to making modifications to an existing full-auto? I've heard that you can use parts from an existing full auto gun to make a new full auto gun. That way nothing new comes onto the market. Its just the old gun in a new form. Any truth to this?

On a side note, what's a "sear gun"? I've seen the term used on full-auto web sites but never understood the term.

If the existing MG is a pre-05/19/86 gun, you can replace everything on it, except for the registered part (sear or reciever). It can only be replaced by the original manufacturer, some of which wont do it, and others are out of business. They can be repaired though, and there are welders out there who are pretty much artists at what they do.

"Sear guns" seem to be most popular with MP5s, which are actually HK94s converted to full auto with a registered sear. MGs were no longer importable due to the GCA '68, and I guess a flemming sear in an HK94 was an easier way to get an MP5 rather than Form 1ing the receiver. You could also use the sear in 91s and 93s, which is why you'll see them advertised registered 9mm, .223, and .308.

That brings me to a question, I've seen the flemming sears for HKs advertised as "Registered in 9mm, .223, .308," so does that mean I cant use a "9mm sear" in a HK93?
 
The list of calibers the gun is registered in has no effect on what calibers you can use. Back when the FOPA was passed in '86, apparently some people were afraid that the BATF would somehow limit the calibers that could be used with a machine gun to what's limited on the registration form.

Really though, with an autosear, the caliber should be listed as N/A. How can you determine the caliber of a "gun" that has no chamber?
 
It's just CYA to list all 3 calibers on an HK sear. Just to remove any doubt in a Fed's mind that might feel like prosecuting you. If it just says "9mm" it's a guess whether it can be used in another caliber. It SHOULDN'T matter and people with a brain would never prosecute or convict in that case, but you never know...

You can take a chance and put all 3 calibers when you fill out the new form, but you might get grief if the inspector notices the old form is different. BTW, you won't really save any money by buying just a sear versus getting the whole gun with a sear in it.
 
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