Bullet lead for cartridges

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jmaubin

Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
134
Location
Louisiana
I bought last fall a "38/55" rifle. I had read a lot about what a sweet cal. these were to shoot with a very mild recoil, and it's true it's a wonderful rifle. The only down side is the ammo is very pricey. I've heard the same about 45/70s ammo, the firearm I'm saving for now.

So it seems the next best thing is to reload rounds myself. I have been reading a lot of books so I will avoid common mistakes, and to be as safe as possible.

So where is all of this leading? to save on costs as much as I can I'm thinking of casting my own bullets. I have read at some sources that wheel weight lead works great for Black powder cartridges yet others say use only "Lyman's #2 alloy". I want to do right without cutting corners but wheel weights can be had for less than a $1.00 per pound where as casting alloys can run 2 1/2 to 4 times as much plus shipping.

Do any of yall have any thoughts or advice on this subject?
 
Unless

your time is free and worth nothing to you , then reloading is for the birds , Condors to be exact . Otherwise there is no savings at all . Do the math on your labor building bullets and you got some mighty expensive ammo :D

Wheel weights , fine , but they need to be of the same EXACT wheel weight manufacturer to be consistant material , or you don't get the accuracy your looking for . If your into accuracy that tis . :D Doing a large quantity of melt at one time is a good idea so at least you know a box of bullets is out of the same melt and will be close in weight and material used .

I would use better metal .

Good luck :D

Jaeger
 
If you are planning to load for more than just the 38/55 and a 45/70 you may be saving some money by casting your own. The equipment is not inexpensive and there is a fair amount of work involved so consider buying quality cast bullets. I shoot both the 38/55 and the 45/70 and get excellent results with bullets purchased from Oregon Trail (Lazer Cast) bullet company. Their product is top shelf, hard cast, well lubed and extremely accurate in a properly loaded cartridge. I have fired hundreds of rounds through both rifles (Uberti 1885 High Walls) and have not had any barrel leading issues. I load smokeless powder to BP velocities and the result is a accurate and soft shooting round.
 
One thing to keep in mind with casting is you have a wider range of bullets available.

I use wheel weights with pretty good results, but I'm not a competitive shooter other than informal matches at the local club. If you're just plinking or punching holes in paper they should be good enough.
 
As I understand it, there are only two wheel weight manufacturers in the U.S., and they both use essentially the same alloy in their clip-on wheel weights. (Adhesive weights are nearly pure lead.) So while smelting large batches is a fine idea, it's probably not that important.

As for the quality of the metal, I've gotten MOA from WW bullets. Granted, I do not use them in BP cartridges, simply because I don't own any BP cartridge guns, but I have no reason to believe that WW would not be as good for them as it is for anything else.

HTH!
 
38-55 (375 Winchester)

I have a .375 Win Bog Bore. I had an octagon barrel Model 94 in 38-55. For the .375 I found 200 gr JSP's and loaded with 34- 40 grains of 4198. This is a really snorty load and needs to be worked up to. I also got some 220 gr Hornady JSPs and loaded them pretty heavy (probably 36 gr of 4198). These were really for the .375.

For the M 94 38-55 I got some lazer cast 245 gr lead bullets. They were about $50 for 500 (this was back in 2004). I loaded 28 - 30 grains of 4198 and liked the all around performance in both guns.

I live in Western Washington and much hunting in in brush and at short range. I believe that the .375 (and 38-55) is excellent for this type of work.

I tried some black powder for the 38-55 with the cast bullets and BP. For me they were punky, messy, and inaccurate. I have since read of ways to work with the cases (soap & water and a mayonase jar) to keep the BP soft and the cases clean up better.

If you are interested in BPCR and have one of those guns and are planning to load BP exculsively I would check Venturino articles on the subject or go to a BPCR sight and see what they are doing.

It has been my experience that BPCR rifle shooters and people who use 38-55s, .375, and 45-70s for hunting are like inline and traditional muzzle loader shooters. They love what they are doing and don't have much time for people who don't 'Get it'.

I'm not that way. I love em all. (I spent my H&R 38-55 Buffalo Gun money on a Walker - so many toys so little money).

The only way I would have a 38-55 would be if I hand loaded for it.
old prices
50 for 500 bullets = .10 bullet
25 for 1lb 4198 =235 loads = .11 / cartridge
100 /35 = 35 / case
100 primers $2 =.02 each

First 100 under .75 per cartridge and the second 100 (you reuse the cases) under .25 per cartridge.

Used to be only Winchester sold .375 and they were hard to find. $30 for 20 was a good deal. Now Buffalo Bore 38-55 bullets are $59.76 for 20 or $3 bucks a pop. People who sell bullets for CASS are really proud of their bullets and to me they are flat punky.

Prices of components have gone up - primers are hard to find at any price. But you can improvise. Casting is an option but I didn't save that much. I have fire formed 38-55 cases from 30-30 cartridges (no accuracy but no danger).

Good Luck. Hand loading works well for me. There is a lot of talent on these sights, look around someone is doing exactly what you want to do.

Higene

;)
 
Last edited:
Well guys as to the reloading it's self, that seems like a neat hobby as well. But bullet casting with lead fumes, risks of really bad burns and such, well that thinking was only about costs savings.
Now with fineredmist's suggestion I visited "Oregon Trail bullet company" web site and saw the cost of their bullets, to meet a "savings" reguardless of the worth of ones times to offset the cost of the equipment one would have to really have to cast 10s of thousands of bullets and most likely they would be of a lesser quality. to come close to "saving money".
Now I understand to many who do enjoy casting their on, more power to ya , but for me lets take one step at a time, learn to reload 1st, then maybe later on I give casting a try.
 
Bullet Casting

It is'nt rocket science nor expensive if you work at it.
Mold: need quality,I use lymans mostly no problems,and shoot lubed and as cast.
Lube: Lyman is good for smokless,I use 1000+ for bp cartriges,but I'm not in hot weather;maybe thicken w bees wax for that.
Over the powder wad,.030 or .060 w bp,bp is hotter than smokeless,protects base.
.45-70 : I use 405 lyman wheel weight slug,w 65 gr fffg goex,.060 wad,and 1,000+ lube. 1-20 rds minute of deer neck at 100 yds.
Swiss is hotter,many shooters use it,but several dollars more per lb.
I cast with a ladle,flux w/bees wax,outside ,wear gloves and glasses,etc;
and beer on ice,[not using powder] Muzzle loaders need lead thats dead soft,ie no ring.
enjoy
 
jmaubin,

Casting is a lot of fun and many of us great a great deal of enjoyment from casting and reloading. For some of us it is the only ammo we shoot in our firearms. I have several rifles that have never had a jacketed or a factory bullet go down the barrel.

As for money saving, all I know is I shoot more handloaded rounds for the same amount of $ as if I bought the stuff from the factory.

WWs are not a very consistent alloy but they are a good enough alloy for most hunting situations. I cast with lead and tin alloys and try to have a mix I can duplicate. Consistency is the key to accurate ammo. A well built rifle helps also.

If you want to see and read what some of us do,

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

A couple of days poking around the site should give you a feeling for cast bullates.
 
As far as lead fumes are concerned, I believe the vaporization point for lead is way higher than any temperature you'll ever see while casting. The danger from casting bullets comes from the hot lead itself. Be smart, wear protective clothing, and you'll be ok.
 
Well with saving for "reloading tools and supplies" right now, the cost of casting Bullets for Cartridges ( the basic pots, molds etc.) is one thing for muzzleloaders, but for cartridges I would also need a second press with built in lube and sizing dies. adds to the cost quite a bit more. Like I said once I get a handle on reloading it's self the yes then the next step would be casting for target rounds. If one looks at "Oregon Trail bullet company" web site and see what they got I think for match shooting and hunting their is the way to go.
 
Time is worth something and building good loads does take time and trips to the range ...
But if you don`t reload your own cartridges you will never know the accuracy your rifle or pistols are capable of .....
shooting off the shelf cartridges is mediocre accuracy in compairison .
I`ve Been reloading since I was a kid ..it`s been time well spent as a hobby , and I have made some rifles shoot that other wise would have been junk .
( I laugh out loud every time I see a 45/70 Sharps being sold on Gunbroker and the ad reads owner only fired one box of store bought ammo through rifle ) Bet he couldn`t keep the rounds on a pie plate at 50 yards from a bench .
Casting your own bullets is a big part of it if you plan on reloading black powder cartridges ......I use Oregon Trail bullets for my smokeless loading ..........and I cast all my black powder bullets myself useing dead soft lead for hunting rounds and wheel weights and such lead for target shooting ...cuts down on lead cost this way . and lets face it paper and steel targets are easy to kill .
 
Paper & steel

Good shot placement is critical to a clean target kill. Almost any rife or pistol will do. Believe it or not I have heard that some people are actually putting them down with bows! (I know it's hard to believe but that's what I've heard).
 
Wheel weight metal is not pure lead.

It consists of:
95.5% Lead
0.5 % Tin
4% Antimony

It has a BHN hardness of 9.

Lyman #2 consists of:
90% Lead
5.0% Tin
5.0% Antimony

It has a BHN hardness of 15.

You can make 10 pounds of Lyman #2 by adding:
5 1/2 pounds Wheelweights
1 pound 50/50 bar solder
3 1/2 pounds pure lead.

Or:
4 pounds Linotype
1 pound 50/50 Bar solder
5 pounds pure lead.

rc
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top