Camera's vs. CCW: Impact on crime?

[distra]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum so mods move if needed. Lately we in CT have heard A LOT about camera's in Hartford and other cities PREVENTING crimes. My question is has there been any REAL comparison between the affect of camera's vs CCW for PREVENTING crime? I know camera's aid in the apprehension of criminals, but I have a tough believing they actually prevent crimes. I use the example that if camera's prevent crimes, then there should never be any convenient store robberies after camera's are installed. Not the case if you watch the news everyday. I'll stop rambling, so if anyone knows of real life studies on this issue, please post.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Seems like the UK is a good model:

*Lots of cameras
*Unarmed citizens
*Tons of violent crime.

Bzzzzzt. Nope. Doesn't work.

 

[MacEntyre]

There are lots of articles about this... here are three:

How CCTV Aims to Prevent Crime

Cameras don't prevent crime, They just re-direct it

Do dummy security cameras effectively deter crime?

It may not prevent crime, but it increases the power of big brother.

 

[WildeKurt]

Car Alarms vs Lojak

This kind of reminds me of a similar comparison made between car alarms and the Lojak and similar systems. Alarms tended to redirect thiefs to other cars where Lojak type systems actually caused a reduction in crime by aiding in the capture of thiefs. Seems to me cameras just allow cirminals to evade them where CCW (especially when it is not known who carries and who doesn't) would be more of a deterrant.

Just a thought...

 

[MechAg94]

GB's laws on crime and punishment are really screwed up as well, especially for juveniles. It is not just that they are disarmed, they legally can't defend themselves in many cases, and criminals who are caught are rarely punished significantly.

If they ever got the will to change their laws on self defense, they would likely also change the punishment laws and it would be hard to figure what made the impact on crime. Those things often go together.

IMHO, self defense and concealed carry are very important on the individual level, but it is difficult to find a true trend on the macro- level.

 

[GRIZ22]

The only comparasion between CCW and crime was in Florida in the winter of 94-95. There was a rash of car jackings and armed robberies some resulting in assault and even murder at that time. It seemed some criminal figured out that all rental cars in Florida had tags beginning in Z. If BGs rob and/or carjack cars with Z tags they are probably tourists who don't have CCW. This spread to rest areas on the Interstates targeting people from states like NJ, NY, MA who won't have a gun. FL's immediate response was to get all the rental car plates changed to regular tags and had FHP troopers stationed in each rest area. These troopers didn't just sit in their car and were very vilgilant in making themselves seen. They were later replaced by armed securty. After FL got all this done these crimes basically stopped as the BGs couldn't tell which FL cars were tourists and which were Fl residents with a CCW. This may have been the impetus for FL issuing non-resident CCW. I'm not sure.

 

[Libertylover]

Have both in your home if you're serious about securing it. I've seen really good camera systems for about the price of a mid range handgun, around $500, that will hook up to a computer and record everything digitally. We're talking REALLY good cameras here, usually wireless, with IR illumination at night and all that great stuff. Depending on how much you like your stuff and your security, it seems like a really good investment.

It might not deter crime, per se, but it will deter crime against YOU, which is all that most people are really concerned about.

I don't think big brother should be putting up cameras everywhere, though. Most places worth protecting will do it on their own and won't be using that info for nefarious purposes.

 

[MechAg94]

I have thought about cameras before. There are other things I could do short of that first though like motion sensors or just a good dog.

However, that stuff is great, but it you don't have the right to defend yourself or confront criminals, it is only useful in the aftermath.

 

[flynnguy]

I think a camera will deter crime to a certain extent. If your house is like every other house on the block (ie. you don't have a BMW while everyone else has Hundai's) and yours doesn't stand out in any way and you have a camera while your neighbor doesn't, the would-be thief will probably pass over your house for your neighbors.

However, if everyone in your neighborhood has cameras or your house is more desirable in some way (ie. your house says you have money) I really don't think it would be much of a deterrent.

If someone really wants to get into your house, it's usually fairly easy. The best thing to do is to make yourself less desirable and more difficult than your neighbors. Also gun as a self defense measure only work when your home... if a badguy knows you aren't there (as in he knows you and anyone else who lives there is at work or school) then guns really aren't an issue anymore. In these cases, a camera could help identify the bad guy. There are other things you can do as well to make it more difficult but probably beyond the scope of this post.

This of course not only goes for your house but also your car, business, whatever.

 

[Technosavant]

Some cameras can, in theory, be useful. If the image is good enough to recognize the person, and the person can be found, then a conviction can probably be had. After the fact. Hardened criminals won't worry about it; the average punk in training might think twice about it though (lest his parents find out).

But until a camera can climb down off the post and beat the living tar out of a perp before the deed is done, it won't be effective at stopping crime. A local Wal-Mart here had great video of a group of people carjacking and shooting at somebody in the parking lot. They didn't stop the crime, but somebody there with a firearm might have been more useful.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

Lately we in CT have heard A LOT about camera's in Hartford and other cities PREVENTING crimes.

Are there more or less police officers since the cameras went up? Do the mayors in those cities deliver force reductions and cost savings, or lobby for more money ("free" money from the Fed or state, property tax hikes, 'sin' taxes, higher fees and fines, etc.) to hire more officers?

There's your real answer. I suppose a small city could try offloading onto the county or state but the overall numbers of uniforms won't change...

 

[distra]

Are there more or less police officers since the cameras went up? Do the mayors in those cities deliver force reductions and cost savings, or lobby for more money ("free" money from the Fed or state, property tax hikes, 'sin' taxes, higher fees and fines, etc.) to hire more officers?

As far as I know, the Hartford PD has stepped up patrols in the north end (not such a good area). But, of course, crime/violence continues. The public has caught wind of "Big Brother" camera's and some are all fired up to have them installed. My point is they will help a some aprehension of criminals by IDing the perps, but I'm sceptical they will function as a violence deterrent.

Thanks for the links.

 

[ceetee]

When I first read the following story, I thought, "Gee, what a great thing! Wireless internet access, anywhere in the county!"

Then I read on:

A glimpse of the future: An ambulance rushing through traffic instantly transmits a patient's vital signs to a hospital, letting doctors know what to expect before paramedics arrive.

Police officers monitor a hostage situation on a public bus by tapping into a camera inside the cabin from the safety of their squad cars.

Maintenance workers doing inventory of city supplies order more materials from the convenience of a handheld wireless device tucked in their pockets.

That future may not be so far away. The Broward School Board agreed Tuesday to work with eight other government agencies and private universities as well as several cities to blanket the county with a wireless signal in a project called OneBroward...

snip

Allowing police to monitor security cameras placed in public places has some parent activists watching closely to make sure technology intended to protect does not become intrusive.

"I am cautiously positive," said Ivan Baratz, a parent advocate and chair of a district advisory council. "I would watch it very carefully. I would be concerned that they don't step beyond their boundaries."

snip

All of Broward may have wireless Internet access in 18 months