Can you identify this Lee Enfield????

[TNplinker]

Hi guys

I'm considering trading for a Lee Enfield rifle, and although I'm very interested in military history, I know nothing about these British guns. The seller says that he has never shot the rifle, that it is missing a magazine, and it has a pretty large peep sight on the receiver. I'll attach the pics he provided me....In case they are too small to make out, on the buttstock it says "III* HV 1943" and on the metal band behind the receiver it says, I believe "MA LITHGOW S.M.L.E* 1942" and as you can see, what looks like a pretty large peep sight mounted on it.

Anybody have any idea what type of Enfield this is, and it's approximate value? Will I have a hard time finding a replacement magazine?

Any input would be appreciated! Thanks

 

[AlexanderA]

That's a sporterized Australian-made SMLE No. 1 Mk. III* (Australia never shifted to No. 4 production in WWII). The peep sight is aftermarket. The original sight, as well as the top and front wood, was removed. These alterations pretty much kill any collector value.

 

[TNplinker]

Hmm Ok, I see...sporterized. I never did like that word.

How hard would it be for a guy to get an original stock and sight? Also it needs a magazine...

Would you consider this a decent project gun or would I be better off looking for a different Enfield?

Thanks!!!

 

[AlexanderA]

From the pictures, it looks like you'd need at least a new forestock, rear sight & protector, front & rear handguards, nose cap assembly, band & swivel, as well as the magazine. We don't know what the front sight looks like, or what damage has been done to the buttstock. Then there's the issue of the holes drilled to mount the receiver peep sight. I wouldn't say that it's cost-effective to restore this.

I once had a Lithgow Mk. III SMLE, that I bought at Academy Surplus in Austin, Texas, circa 1962 for $9.95. When the forestock cracked from the recoil while shooting it, I decided to do a full sporterization. I put a real nice Fajen stock on it, had a high-polish blue done, had the sights replaced with a ramp front and a Lyman micrometer rear, etc. It turned out to be a nice gun, but not one that I wanted to keep. Some years later I sold it to a guy in my gun club for $50.

 

[Ignition Override]

You can also learn many more details about Enfields from "Tikirocker", an Aussie guy who is a moderator at Gunboards or Surplusrifle.

 

[TNplinker]

Wow, you just said a mouthful of parts there. Looks like I would have more in the parts that I would the actual rifle! I know it's hard to quantify, given you've got 4 muddy photos to go on, but would you have any idea what this rifle might be worth, so I know what I'm dealing with in a trade with the owner?

He's also got a Steyr Mannlicher M95 that I'm waiting on some photos of, the condition of which I have no idea, and you seem to be the guy in the know so I might ask you about that one when the pics arrive.

BTW you tell that guy in your gun club if he wants to make his 50 bucks back...haha

 

[Liberty1776]

JMHO - you're better off waiting if you want a more traditional rifle. This would be an ok brush gun, but I wouldn't pay over $150 and that's if the bore were perfect and I'd really need to want to have one. The magazine will cost you about $30, so factor that in.

 

[AlexanderA]

Would you have any idea what this rifle might be worth, so I know what I'm dealing with in a trade with the owner?

There are a couple of sporterized ones, like the one in your pictures, on GunBroker right now in the range of $175 to $400, and an original unaltered one for a buy-it-now price of $695. Personally, I think these prices are on the high side. Keep in mind that the missing parts -- it you can find them -- are likely to set you back $200 - $300. On the whole, you're better off getting an unaltered one. They're not rare.

He's also got a Steyr Mannlicher M95 that I'm waiting on some photos of, the condition of which I have no idea, and you seem to be the guy in the know so I might ask you about that one when the pics arrive.

That's the straight-pull, right? I had one of those back in the 60's, too. I hate to say that I "sporterized" it by cutting the stock off under the band and taking off the handguard (I was starting to wise up and so I didn't do any further damage). When I moved away from Austin in 1970, I put it back together and gave it away, along with a Carcano I had, to McBride's gun shop. I just wanted to get rid of this stuff because I was starting to concentrate on U.S. military weapons.

Fortunately, we can learn from our mistakes.

 

[Jim Watson]

Agree with Liberty. This thing is a minimum hunting rifle of low value.
To "re-mil" one like this would call for infinite patience scrounging parts on the cheap and the ability to do any fitting and installation work yourself. Paying a gunsmith would make it a money pit.

 

[TNplinker]

That's right, 1895 straight-pull Mannlicher. I've been reading about them all afternoon and I'm curious to see if he's trading a full-length rifle or one of the shorter carbines. What I'm trading on my end is a Remington Genesis muzzleloader that has been rarely fired, along with a 50 cal ammo can filled with 50 + shockwave sabots, 3 boxes of pyrodex pellets, bullet starter, range rod, bore butter, everything you'd need to hunt deer this season.

I think I'm going to offer him my gun + add ons for both of his rifles, mostly so I can take them apart and put them back together again, something I am compelled to do with every new firearm I acquire. I'll post pics of the Steyr if and when he sends them to me.

Something else I haven't considered is ammo....

I've found 303 British available, but as far as the 8x56r for the Steyr...jeez

I agree with the phrase "Money pit"!

 

[303tom]

Hmm Ok, I see...sporterized. I never did like that word.

How hard would it be for a guy to get an original stock and sight? Also it needs a magazine...

Would you consider this a decent project gun or would I be better off looking for a different Enfield?

Thanks!!!

Go here then weigh the cost.............. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=11952

 

[Eb1]

I have a 1943 AUS Lithgow No.1 Mk.3. It looks like your is a 1942 that has been worked on.

I'll get some pics up for you to compare.

 

[TNplinker]

Hey that would be great Eb1, I would really appreciate some views of your rifle. I just talked to the guy and he said the stock is original and marked in 3 places, and he will send me better pics. He also said he had his gunsmith look at it and the sight was replaced (still it might be after market) and original rear sights removed for "longer shots".

We will see..

Also said he'd send me pics of the Steyr M95

after these messages... we'll be riiight back

 

[AlexanderA]

Regarding the ammo for the M95 Steyr Mannlicher, it was originally 8x50R. Most of the guns were converted between WWI and WWII to 8x56R, and then later Yugoslavia converted captured ones to 8mm Mauser (designated M95M). This 8mm Mauser conversion may be pushing the limits of the strength of the action.

 

[gunnutery]

It's probably not going to be worth it to restore it, but it'd make a fine scout rifle if you still want to make a project out of it.

 

[j1]

You wouod be better off buying a different rifle.

 

[303tom]

If you don`t think you are going to restore it, they make great hunting rifles............

 

[TNplinker]

UPDATE photos of Lee enfield and Steyr M95

I just received pics of both guns that show better (sort of) views. I think they were taken on an Iphone, and they look squashed or distorted or something. This post will be the Enfield Pics:

 

[TNplinker]

more Enfield...

 

[TNplinker]

UPDATE Steyr M95 pics

and here's pics of the Steyr..

 

[TNplinker]

and more steyr..

 

[TNplinker]

And last 3 pics. I would really appreciate any input on identifying these rifles, model, make, variations etc. as well as appraisals or the historical accuracy of their current condition. I'm primarily interested in their historical value and would like to own and shoot a piece of history.

I'll have to choose between the two guns in a trade, and I'm leaning towards the Enfield because I think I'll have a better time finding ammo, and I guess I have sort of more affinity for the Allies, obviously

 

[303 hunter]

The 8x56R ammo is getting very hard to find. When you do find some,it's usually from the 1910-1930 era. About $2 per round. Hornady makes a hunting round in 8x56-very expensive also.

 

[TNplinker]

Wow. What am I looking at as far as ammo for the Lee Enfield?

 

[Radagast]

http://www.ammoman.com/p/278/303-british-by-prvi-partisan-174-grain-full-metal-jacket