Castle Laws and Bicylces
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TexasRifleman
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As I asked before, post a report of someone arrested for that.
You can't just put "because I felt like it" on the arrest report.
doubleought 7
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"You can't just put "because I felt like it" on the arrest report."
But you can arrest for "suspicion of" and that can cover a lot of ground"
JUst as "fear for life" can cover a lot of ground in use of deadly force.
__________________
Several things have to have happened before the handgun issue ever comes up. If the handgun in the car is in view it is an obvious violation. If it is not in view several other things have to have happened before the car is searched. If the car is legally searched and a handgun is found, “suspicion” of illegal possession of a hand gun added to the whatever the reasons to justify the search are, they are enough reasons be arrested and taken “downtown” And first your gun will be confiscated
And you will have to go to court to get it returned.
As some Houston DA said ““The presumption of innocence does not make the person innocent.”
And I ask again why are you so sure that thse kind of things are not going on every day?
If the TSRA whoever they are believes that situations like this don't exist they are too innocent or must have some hidden agenda.
But you can arrest for "suspicion of" and that can cover a lot of ground"
JUst as "fear for life" can cover a lot of ground in use of deadly force.
__________________
Several things have to have happened before the handgun issue ever comes up. If the handgun in the car is in view it is an obvious violation. If it is not in view several other things have to have happened before the car is searched. If the car is legally searched and a handgun is found, “suspicion” of illegal possession of a hand gun added to the whatever the reasons to justify the search are, they are enough reasons be arrested and taken “downtown” And first your gun will be confiscated
And you will have to go to court to get it returned.
As some Houston DA said ““The presumption of innocence does not make the person innocent.”
And I ask again why are you so sure that thse kind of things are not going on every day?
If the TSRA whoever they are believes that situations like this don't exist they are too innocent or must have some hidden agenda.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
You need to provide some kind of proof before you start spouting off about TSRA having a hidden agenda around this matter.
All you have said is "you heard from a guy". You expect to have that taken seriously?
Some evidence, any evidence at all, that this is happening.
Otherwise you're just rumor mongering.
"I heard in my CHL class...." is at the top of the list of things people ignore, right up there with "I heard in a gun store...."
There are plenty of groups ready to fight abuses like this if they are happening, TSRA is one of them.
But you offer nothing other than "I heard from a guy who knows a guy...."
You really think that if this was happening every day no one would talk about it? Especially in Houston where the Texas ACLU lives for this kind of thing because it's often race related.
Not one single incident reported since September of last year when the law went into effect. Not one.
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doubleought 7
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Anecdotal? Sure. I have gone almost 20 years and not been stopped for a traffic violation so if I was carrying a gun in the car illegally or otherwise it would not have made any difference.Probably won't happen to very few persons But I don't carry one in Harris County. I don't have any reason to believe Harris County has discontinued their announced policy two years ago of treating all guns found in cars owned by Non CHL holders to be illegal. Veteran lawmen of ajoining counties say they have not. The Houston mayor and DA have never announced a change. HASANYONE SEEN THIS ANOUNCEMENT?
So believe what you want. But follow my advice and no way will you be in trouble and follow the advice given by Rifleman who is only going on faith of the Houston DA following the strict rule of the law. Could be in trouble As Rifleman admitted The Houston Mayor and DA annouced they did not intend to and did not follow the old law. Why would we believe this is any different? Suit yourself and trust some some Houston DA who said ““The presumption of innocence does not make the person innocent
While I was in service advice such as Rifleman gives Was called "Advice from a Stockade, guardhouse brig etc lawyer
Can rifleman cite one case where it has proved to be changed?One statement even saying it has changed? I don't intend to test it on the strength of the advice from someone who may be just stating a personal opinion with nothing to prove otherwise.
So believe what you want. But follow my advice and no way will you be in trouble and follow the advice given by Rifleman who is only going on faith of the Houston DA following the strict rule of the law. Could be in trouble As Rifleman admitted The Houston Mayor and DA annouced they did not intend to and did not follow the old law. Why would we believe this is any different? Suit yourself and trust some some Houston DA who said ““The presumption of innocence does not make the person innocent
While I was in service advice such as Rifleman gives Was called "Advice from a Stockade, guardhouse brig etc lawyer
Can rifleman cite one case where it has proved to be changed?One statement even saying it has changed? I don't intend to test it on the strength of the advice from someone who may be just stating a personal opinion with nothing to prove otherwise.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I have given no advice, I simply asked you to give some kind of evidence of the pretty severe abuses of power you claim happen "every day".
Yet you can't give a single reference.
Yet you are warning people against certain activities based on the same thing, no evidence at all just your personal opinion.
Then you decide to claim that TSRA has a hidden agenda and is somehow connected to all of these secret anti gun DA's you claim exist.
I think I've seen enough.
Yet you can't give a single reference.
Yet you are warning people against certain activities based on the same thing, no evidence at all just your personal opinion.
Then you decide to claim that TSRA has a hidden agenda and is somehow connected to all of these secret anti gun DA's you claim exist.
I think I've seen enough.
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doubleought 7
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Such faith in any highly politicised law force such as Harris County is touching
Dumb but touching. My way no problems way in case of trouble. Your faith based way possible big trouble Believe it or don't believe it or just do as you see fit, I suspect if you ask a lawyer about the possibility of being in trouble with the Houston police if a non CHL holder was found with a pistol in their car. His answer would be something on the order of "You stand a good chance"
Dumb but touching. My way no problems way in case of trouble. Your faith based way possible big trouble Believe it or don't believe it or just do as you see fit, I suspect if you ask a lawyer about the possibility of being in trouble with the Houston police if a non CHL holder was found with a pistol in their car. His answer would be something on the order of "You stand a good chance"
doubleought 7
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Regarding advice etc. "Some people learn by reading, some by hearing, some by seeing, but some jest got to learn by piddling on the electric fence"
zombienerd
Member
Ok, although this thread has veered way off topic, I want to interject here.
It is FACT that concealing a weapon in your car without a CCL is Legal in Texas.
Doubleought says that police in some areas would arrest you for this.
I have a question to ask.
It is FACT that it is legal to wear a blue shirt.
If I go somewhere and I get arrested because I have a blue shirt on, how could you explain this?
If you are arrested for something that is strictly defined in state law as being legal, then the police officer, his superiors, the town, and possibly even the state government are open to civil rights violation litigation.
There is not a court I have ever seen that will read a law that clearly states
and think, well, He had the weapon concealed, wasn't in the process of committing a crime, he's not prohibited from owning a firearm, he's not a gang member, but, Golly gee dang it, the cop arrested him anyway, so he's guilty.
Your argument just didn't hold much water. If it's legal, it's legal. I wish I could be the one who was arrested for obeying the law, that would be a nice fat lawsuit.
It is FACT that concealing a weapon in your car without a CCL is Legal in Texas.
Doubleought says that police in some areas would arrest you for this.
I have a question to ask.
It is FACT that it is legal to wear a blue shirt.
If I go somewhere and I get arrested because I have a blue shirt on, how could you explain this?
If you are arrested for something that is strictly defined in state law as being legal, then the police officer, his superiors, the town, and possibly even the state government are open to civil rights violation litigation.
There is not a court I have ever seen that will read a law that clearly states
and think, well, He had the weapon concealed, wasn't in the process of committing a crime, he's not prohibited from owning a firearm, he's not a gang member, but, Golly gee dang it, the cop arrested him anyway, so he's guilty.
Your argument just didn't hold much water. If it's legal, it's legal. I wish I could be the one who was arrested for obeying the law, that would be a nice fat lawsuit.
doubleought 7
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That is not exactly what I said. I wrote something about the reports were now that this was still going on in some districts of Texas. They were ignoring what that law said then why is there surprise that they would ignore the current version?
There is no denying that it was happening before
********
This is a report of what was happening in 2007 n a report issued last February,2007 the ACLU of Texas, the Texas State Rifle Association, and the Texas Criminal Justice Association showed that many district and county attorneys are instructing police to carry on as before, arresting motorists for UCW at their discretion and letting prosecutors and judges sort things out. — Hit and Run
That’s right, in Texas, the legislature has specifically said not to bother ordinary people who are traveling with their guns, people like Katy geologist Keith Patton, who lost a $300 pistol he’d just bought, $1,500 in attorney’s fees, $268 in vehicle impound fees, and a night in jail, because local prosecutors and cops are still harassing law-abiding citizens by arresting them and bringing them up on trumped-up charges.
The controversy, such as can be said to exist, is largely manufactured by the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, which advised local prosecutors to ignore the plain meaning of the law and the intent of the legislature and that police could still arrest law-abiding citizens because, they said, a court had to decide if they were “traveling.”
“Therefore,” it declared, “officers are still acting within their lawful discretion if they arrest a person who might qualify for the traveling defense or the new traveling presumption.”
Or, as Charles A. Rosenthal Jr., the district attorney of Harris County, which includes Houston, argued, “The presumption of innocence does not make the person innocent.”
There is no denying that it was happening before
********
This is a report of what was happening in 2007 n a report issued last February,2007 the ACLU of Texas, the Texas State Rifle Association, and the Texas Criminal Justice Association showed that many district and county attorneys are instructing police to carry on as before, arresting motorists for UCW at their discretion and letting prosecutors and judges sort things out. — Hit and Run
That’s right, in Texas, the legislature has specifically said not to bother ordinary people who are traveling with their guns, people like Katy geologist Keith Patton, who lost a $300 pistol he’d just bought, $1,500 in attorney’s fees, $268 in vehicle impound fees, and a night in jail, because local prosecutors and cops are still harassing law-abiding citizens by arresting them and bringing them up on trumped-up charges.
The controversy, such as can be said to exist, is largely manufactured by the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, which advised local prosecutors to ignore the plain meaning of the law and the intent of the legislature and that police could still arrest law-abiding citizens because, they said, a court had to decide if they were “traveling.”
“Therefore,” it declared, “officers are still acting within their lawful discretion if they arrest a person who might qualify for the traveling defense or the new traveling presumption.”
Or, as Charles A. Rosenthal Jr., the district attorney of Harris County, which includes Houston, argued, “The presumption of innocence does not make the person innocent.”
doubleought 7
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"Your argument just didn't hold much water. If it's legal, it's legal. I wish I could be the one who was arrested for obeying the law, that would be a nice fat lawsuit.
I was not making any argument I wrote that veteran lawmen in an ajoining county told me it was still going on. The CHL instructor was a veteran Harris Co deputy(retired) and he warned me and the whole class that it was still going on. I am not interested in "testing" whether it is true or not.
I was not making any argument I wrote that veteran lawmen in an ajoining county told me it was still going on. The CHL instructor was a veteran Harris Co deputy(retired) and he warned me and the whole class that it was still going on. I am not interested in "testing" whether it is true or not.
Flintknapper
Member
doubleought 7 ,
I would like to personally invite you here: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/index.php
to continue this conversation. We have several well versed lawyers and many LEO (several in Harris county) that will put to rest your concerns.
You will be treated with all due respect...but I must say many of your comments or posts here are patently wrong and only serve to "muddy the water" concerning the lawful carry of firearms.
Please accept this invitation in the spirit in which it is offered. I think you will surprised to find out just how far off base you are.
Respectfully, Flint.
P.S. TexasRifleMan, you have been "spot on" with your every post.
I would like to personally invite you here: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/index.php
to continue this conversation. We have several well versed lawyers and many LEO (several in Harris county) that will put to rest your concerns.
You will be treated with all due respect...but I must say many of your comments or posts here are patently wrong and only serve to "muddy the water" concerning the lawful carry of firearms.
Please accept this invitation in the spirit in which it is offered. I think you will surprised to find out just how far off base you are.
Respectfully, Flint.
P.S. TexasRifleMan, you have been "spot on" with your every post.
doubleought 7
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I went to the link furnished but found nothing about what the current attitude of the Harris Co law is to guns in a car. Muddy the waters? I am only repeating what I have heard about the situation. The Houston and Harris Co law force completely ignored the law once. Do you have anything more than repeating what the law says. Anyone on board who has been stopped? Lawyers? The Lege is full of lawyers who wrote the previous bill giving the right to carry a pistol in your car. I KNOW the Houston police have a proven record of ignoring laws on concealed weapons that the lege writes
Go to this link and ask the lawyers about it.
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007...ng-gun-owners/.
Go to this link and ask the lawyers about it.
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007...ng-gun-owners/.
Flintknapper
Member
If you "searched the link" then you didn't try very hard.
Like I said, come on over...introduce yourself and I'll take from there. Yes, I'll be happy to provide you with posts about being stopped, the names of lawyers and plenty of discussion about the "current attitude".
It is true enough that the former Police Chief and DA were making things hard on the citizens of Harris county, that is all in the past and it has NOT been a problem for quite some time.
I am happy to make the effort you require...in order to satisfy your questions. Normally, I dislike doing someone else's work for them...but come visit the site and we will settle it.
Thank you,
Flint.
Like I said, come on over...introduce yourself and I'll take from there. Yes, I'll be happy to provide you with posts about being stopped, the names of lawyers and plenty of discussion about the "current attitude".
It is true enough that the former Police Chief and DA were making things hard on the citizens of Harris county, that is all in the past and it has NOT been a problem for quite some time.
I am happy to make the effort you require...in order to satisfy your questions. Normally, I dislike doing someone else's work for them...but come visit the site and we will settle it.
Thank you,
Flint.
doubleought 7
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NOT been a problem for quite some time.
Sez who? It was two years ago. More no problem statements from chat room sources with nothing but opinion to back it up.
Sez who? It was two years ago. More no problem statements from chat room sources with nothing but opinion to back it up.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
At this point you're just trolling.
Since you joined THR this is the only thread you've posted in. So..... troll.
There's nothing else to add to this thread.
Since you joined THR this is the only thread you've posted in. So..... troll.
There's nothing else to add to this thread.
doubleought 7
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When a poster displays as little knowledge of Texas use of deadly force law to not know that for deadly force to be legal it is not necessary to be requested to protect a neighbors property I really question their ability to read and understand any law. Really very clearly states that it is not. Just another example of opinion trying to be stated as fact.
All I have definitely declared is that according to several veteran lawmen in ajoining Counties the Harris Co law STILL is treating any gun not owned by a CHL holder in a car as an illegal weapon. Now all the arguement that the statement is not correct are not backed up by anything. I don't really know if the men were correct or not but so far the chat room veterans have given no real reason to believe they were not correct.
I have never stated that the Houston law was still ignoring the law, but so far no one has writen anything that made me think that they were not. I have asked this several times With their record of blatant public statements that they were going to ignore the law at that time why would anyone think they were above doing it now. Maybe check with the ACLU.
All I have definitely declared is that according to several veteran lawmen in ajoining Counties the Harris Co law STILL is treating any gun not owned by a CHL holder in a car as an illegal weapon. Now all the arguement that the statement is not correct are not backed up by anything. I don't really know if the men were correct or not but so far the chat room veterans have given no real reason to believe they were not correct.
I have never stated that the Houston law was still ignoring the law, but so far no one has writen anything that made me think that they were not. I have asked this several times With their record of blatant public statements that they were going to ignore the law at that time why would anyone think they were above doing it now. Maybe check with the ACLU.
Flintknapper
Member
I have invited you twice now to introduce yourself and continue your “objection” at a site that can perhaps better address your issue/position.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33
THR is a great site with some very knowledgeable people…but the CHL forum is a venue that discusses and deals with these questions daily.
As concerns your request that others “show” you that attitudes and policies HAVE changed in Harris county, let me remind you that is incumbent upon the “objector” to provide empirical evidence when challenging a clearly stated law.
So…basically “put up”. Where are the statements of these seasoned officers? What are their names, what dept. do they work for? Where are the arrest records of all the people you claim are being stopped and harassed?
Again, bring your concerns to the link I provided you and we will be happy to address them. Fair enough?
Flint.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33
THR is a great site with some very knowledgeable people…but the CHL forum is a venue that discusses and deals with these questions daily.
As concerns your request that others “show” you that attitudes and policies HAVE changed in Harris county, let me remind you that is incumbent upon the “objector” to provide empirical evidence when challenging a clearly stated law.
So…basically “put up”. Where are the statements of these seasoned officers? What are their names, what dept. do they work for? Where are the arrest records of all the people you claim are being stopped and harassed?
Again, bring your concerns to the link I provided you and we will be happy to address them. Fair enough?
Flint.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Apparently you can't read either, since that is not what was said.
So now you just restate things incorrectly so you can continue to argue.
As I said. Troll.
Oldtrader3
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Is this guy a troll? Or does he think that asking dumb questions like carrying on a bicycle have anything to do with Texas carry laws. As far as carrying "hot", what is the point of carrying a pistol if it is not loaded? I assume that means cocked-and-locked. You might as well carry a ballpoint pen. People do not normally "sweep" while carrying a cocked and locked pistol. I would dial 911 if I saw some idiot "sweeping" the mall with an unholstered loaded pistol. To me "hot" means stolen. If you mean cocked-and-locked say it.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Enough.
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