China's economic malaise and potential impact on USA

Status
Not open for further replies.

Preacherman

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Messages
13,306
Location
Louisiana, USA
Folks, this is a long but VERY interesting article on China's current economic problems. Given that most of us will be affected by any problems (how many of us own Chinese-sourced guns? How many of us shop at Wal-Mart?), I think this is information worth having. Highly recommended.

From the Stratfor Weekly (http://www.stratfor.com):

Please feel free to send the Stratfor Weekly to a friend
or colleague.


THE STRATFOR WEEKLY
30 April 2004

Euphoria, Meltdown and China's Economy

Summary

New lending policies in China are triggering a fundamental
rethinking of the stability of the Chinese economy. This time no
amount of damage control can hide the fact that the myth of the
Chinese economic miracle is finally -- and perhaps fatally --
breaking apart.

Analysis

Significant uncertainty erupted in Chinese banking circles this
week as reports circulated globally that the China Banking
Regulatory Commission had suspended all lending for three days.
This would effectively create a lending moratorium for well over
a week due to the upcoming May Day celebration. The story, which
appeared in the Wall Street Journal and other media, was quickly
denied. However, Western media, including Agence France-Presse,
are citing specific examples of Chinese banking officials who
claim to have seen the order. Officials at the China Merchants
Bank said they received the order from the CBRC -- and that it
was issued by the Chinese Cabinet.

The issuance of the order -- which obviously could not be kept
secret -- indicates one of two things. One, the Chinese
government, alarmed at what it sees happening in the banking
system, decided the situation was out of control and sought to
take control with a moratorium that would buy some time for
planning. When the international reaction started to roll in,
they became alarmed at a collapse of global confidence in China's
economy and pulled back. This would indicate a degree of panic. A
second explanation is that Beijing, concerned with the banking
system, issued an order it had no intention of enforcing -- in
order to fire a shot across the bow of the banking system and
generate internal discipline.

Either explanation leads to the same conclusion, as Stratfor
stated in its annual and quarterly forecasts: There are extremely
serious problems with China's economy in general -- and with its
banking system in particular. The only issue on the table is
whether the behavior of China's authorities reveals deep concern
or outright panic. That is an interesting question -- and not a
trivial one -- but it does not cut to the heart of the problem,
which is that China, contrary to popular perception or even its
extremely high economic growth rate, is in serious trouble and is
desperately searching for a soft landing -- a landing that might
not be available.

To understand China's problems, it is necessary to look at the
structure -- and failures -- of other Asian economies. We have
already seen two major systemic crackups in Asia during this
generation. Japan went from being an economic superpower that was
predicted to dominate the global economy in the 21st century to
an economic cripple during the early 1990s. East and Southeast
Asia, excluding China, similarly passed from economic miracles to
economic catastrophes in 1997. In both cases, the striking
characteristic was the speed at which overblown Western
expectations turned into disappointment. It is our view that
China, which got started later than other Asian economies, is on
course to be the third Asian meltdown in this generation. The
euphoria about China until very recently -- and China's assiduous
attempts to stoke expectations -- tracks with what happened in
the rest of Asia.

The core problem in Asia -- a problem that the Chinese government
is trying to address belatedly -- is that its banking systems do
not allocate capital based on market forces. Loan decisions are
made out of political and social considerations, and real
interest rates vary depending on these relationships. Long-term
business relationships in Asia receive favorable treatment from
banks regardless of the actual business case to be made for a
loan.

Of equal importance, these are debt rather than equity driven
economies. The major source of financing does not come from sale
of shares in businesses, but from direct loans. There are two
reasons for this. The legal structure of Asian corporations gives
limited rights and protections to shareholders, who do not
collectively control corporate boards. Therefore, maximizing
shareholder value is not a driving consideration. It also means
that a core measure of economic performance -- the rate of return
on capital -- is not a critical variable.

Cash flow is critical. The primary financial relationship of
Asian -- and Chinese -- businesses is with banks. The primary
interest of bankers, who have tremendous influence on boards, is
the repayment of loans and interest. Cash flow is therefore
critical to the system, while return on investment --
particularly in the long term -- is not a significant factor.
Investment -- and a return on investment -- is more significant
in China than in other Asian locations, but the general rule
still holds.

The Way It Works, or Doesn't

In Asia, there are two interconnected processes that must take
place. First, there has to be a forced savings system that
channels money into the banking system at low consumer rates to
generate cash for loans. This obviously limits domestic
consumption; if you are saving for your retirement because of
nonexistent or insufficient retirement plans, you are not in a
position to buy a great deal. This leads to a second, linked
process: export-oriented economies. If you must make bank
payments, and your own market has constrained demand due to high
savings rates, your only option is to sell overseas.

In forcing exports, the focus is on cash flow rather than profit
margins. This means goods are sold near cost -- and in extreme
cases below cost -- in order to cover debt service. From the
importing country's point of view, this can have a devastating
effect because domestic companies driven by return on capital
cannot compete in the short run with Asian imports that are
indifferent to profit margins. Entire industrial sectors are
taken out. At the same time, economic growth in the exporting
country -- measured simply in terms of production and sales --
surges. But underneath these apparently astounding economic
achievements, the Asian economy is actually hollowing itself out.

The core problem is that, over time, the allocation of loans
based on non-market consideration, means that the economy,
lacking market disciplines, behaves in irrational ways. Most
important, the disciplines of market economies -- from
foreclosures to recessions -- don't happen. Essentially unhealthy
businesses continue to grow due to the infusion of debt. The
infusion of debt has a number of positive results. It maintains
social stability, keeps the political system functioning and it
allows banks to avoid non-performing loans. It also has a single
devastating effect -- it creates an economy that is kept alive by
pyramiding loans that undergird an increasingly dysfunctional
system.

Non-performing loans are avoided in three ways. First, there is
the continual restructuring of debt and infusion of more money,
designed to keep bad loans off the books and maintain confidence
in the banks and the banking system. Second, companies implement
aggressive export programs to generate cash flow. Finally,
programs are put into place to induce foreign investors to put
money into joint ventures, whose boards are controlled by Asian
companies. This prevents foreign investors from really looking at
the books of the Asian parent companies, but allows the boards to
make decisions that transfer money from the joint venture into
the parent company.

In order for this latter process to work, the Asian countries
create a sense of euphoria for foreign investors. Japan in 1990,
East and Southeast Asia in 1995-1996 and China in 2003 all
created nearly hysterical environments in which foreign investors
felt they could not resist participating in various placements
and industrial joint ventures. Western investment banks play a
critical role in this process by overestimating Asian potential,
while collecting fees on placements.

This hollows out the banks. In Japan and Asia, it was the large
financial institutions that first felt their foundations
collapsing under them. At a certain point, the cash flow
requirements outstrip debt service and export demand, and foreign
direct investment can no longer make up for them. Non-performing
loans begin to accumulate. The banks wind up with more hungry
mouths than they can feed, and they scramble to maintain the
system.

The system erodes slowly but the perception of systemic failure
comes suddenly -- making the management of the flow of financial
information a critical issue. The banks, working with the
government, hold things together until they can no longer do so.
A crisis builds around the public realization that major
financial institutions are failing, vulnerable to failure or can
survive only through heroic measures. A period of sharp, intense
crisis takes place, which does not solve any fundamental
problems. A long period of malaise follows, as some recover and
others fail.

China Tries to Cope

The Chinese government is trying to prevent the crisis from
breaking out into the open, essentially by stopping the
intensifying debt production process that banks are engaged in.
Of course, if the banks stop making loans, the entire system can
hit a brick wall. You can evade the wall if foreign direct
investment increases, driven by confidence that the Chinese
government is taking steps to control the situation. You can
evade the wall if you can increase exports. But if exports are at
the maximum -- simply because you can't produce more goods and
foreign markets can't absorb them -- and global finance is thrown
into a panic by suspending loans, then the entire system can
crack.

The Chinese government knows it has a major crisis on its hands.
Its loan moratorium was designed to buy a week or so to try to
sort through this problem. Somehow, it fantasized that it could
keep the moratorium quiet. When the Wall Street Journal announced
it, the Chinese realized that a global crisis of confidence was
in the offing, so they officially suspended the moratorium.
Saying "never mind" is an interesting strategy, but essentially
Beijing has let the cat out of the bag. The banking industry is
out of control, and the government is not sure how to get it back
under control without the very public airing of some very dirty
laundry.

In reality, the enormity of the problem is dawning on everyone.
This is not a technical problem of managing a normal business
cycle. This is a banking system nearing meltdown for which the
government would like to find a technical solution that would
allow the game to go on. Beijing had hoped a $45 billion bailout
ahead of a series of initial public offerings (IPOs) of shares in
two of its leading commercial banks would help keep the system
afloat. IPOs for banks whose policies are so troubling that the
government forces them to suspend lending are not likely to be a
wildly successful. The system is crumbling.

The problem is that, as with the rest of Asia before it, the game
can't go on for China. On the other hand, the Chinese government
can't possibly take the draconian steps that would be needed to
begin the process of healing. There would be political chaos.

Therefore, the Chinese government has signaled what it would do
with political chaos by blocking elections in Hong Kong.
Therefore, we have seen a major outflow of money from China by
individuals and institutions that know the jig is up. Therefore,
China's leaders have been signaling for the past week that there
is a major crisis. They are trying to manage their way through
it. But even if they do, the best they can hope for is Japanese-
style malaise -- and China's political and social systems are not
Japan's. Malaise is not a viable option.

It is interesting to note that the Japanese and Asian meltdowns
did not affect the rest of the world as one might predict.
Certainly, investments there were devastated, and business plans
based on 10 percent growth a year were shattered. But the United
States in particular benefited from the meltdown, as panicky
money fled its way. One could argue that the impetus for both the
early 1990s surge and the late 1990s surge came from money
fleeing Asia and moving into the United States.

The sky is not falling for the global economy. It might be
falling for China. Without a convertible currency -- this is why
Beijing will not float and trade the Yuan -- China has some tools
to handle the problem that Thailand or Indonesia did not. In the
end, the economic game is ending and the political one is
beginning. As China -- slowly or quickly -- decays economically,
the political consequences will be the most important. Even if
China avoids complete meltdown, avoiding malaise will be much,
much harder. Stratfor thought all this would wait until 2005.
Right now, the Chinese do not look so lucky.

(c) 2004 Strategic Forecasting, Inc. All rights reserved.
 
If I were the President I'd be beginning a deployment of US Naval and Air Forces to the Western Pacific in a big way right about now. You can count on the senior communist leadership in Bejing to try and forment a military conflict over Taiwan to divert the public's attention from their impending economic collapse.
 
You can count on the senior communist leadership in Bejing to try and forment a military conflict over Taiwan to divert the public's attention from their impending economic collapse.

It probably wouldn't be a diversion, it would be a cash and land grab. I'd be very concerned if I were one of China's neighbors right now.
 
Does this mean I'll be able to get cheap Chinese 75-rnd drums in September?

On a more serious note, this kind of situation gives us pretty good leverage in trade negotiations. It's difficult to be a tough negotiator when your adversary(US) can send your entire economy into default with a short trade stoppage.
 
Not quite that simple. PRC also owns a LOT of Treasury Bonds and T-Bills, so we do have to send them cash now and then.

Evidently most of the non-performing loans are in older industries, such as steelmaking, utilities, armaments, etc. The question: which ones? Which ones will shut down because the credit is shut off? And what are the consequences?

Most of us who have been watching are now beginning to believe that PRC is already at war with the USA--and doing it economically, by stripping the industrial base from this country. Doing a decent job of it, too--

NOW the question is whether they can keep it up. And if they can't, what are the consequences for US companies which have JV's in China? I know of at least one firm w/a JV over there and the article points out that such US JV partners are now at risk....

Hmmmmm.
 
As for 'negotiation,' the Administration announced Wednesday that they were NOT going to push China around on their yuan-fixing. The article references the fixed yuan as a key to the PRC being able to 'recover' from this problem.

Unfortunately, that does not help the manufacturing base in the USA...
 
This stuff is old news, that the mainstreamers are only now begining to acknowledge.


http://www.dailyreckoning.com/detail.cfm?id=3634&tp=h&kw=china&kwh=china&s=n&stype=drhdln&tp=drhdln
last november:
http://www.dailyreckoning.com/detai...=pao mo&kwh=pao,mo&s=n&stype=drdeml&tp=drdeml
from february
http://www.dailyreckoning.com/detai...=pao mo&kwh=pao,mo&s=n&stype=drdeml&tp=drdeml

The downside of course is that Japan and China are holding up the value of the dollar by Massive currency purchasing by their central banks. When China crashes it will take the US dollar with it. Anyone who wants to read a not so upbeat (but accurate) view on the next ten years in the US is advised to read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-8040933-1659955?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Long story short: easy credit fueled a boom in the 1990's. Like all credit booms, it busted, but instead of allowing the distortions to be worked out of the system, the fed cut interest rates to the floor and has held them there causing the bubbles in real estate, consumption, and the stock market.


atek3
 
A friend of mine was talking about China buying up all our scrap steel and driving up the prices in the USA said it reminded him of Japan doing the same thing in the 30's

makes one wonder
 
No, No, and No. China wants to be a world player. It realizes the way to do so is economically not militarily. They'll have a severe recession, and assuming the chinese have learned from the japanese what NOT to do in the case of a recession, by 2010 they'll they'll be doing great again. (Oh, by the way what NOT to do is, a) keep interest rates at zero percent b) massive public works projects building "bridges to no where" and c) spending trillions trying to manipulate the exchange rate)

atek3
 
A friend of mine was talking about China buying up all our scrap steel and driving up the prices in the USA said it reminded him of Japan doing the same thing in the 30's

Getting bombed with another 5th Avenue L is a possibility, but I fail to see how buying American scrap could somehow cause steel supply to dry up to a significant extent. If anything the problem lies on an insatiable demand side. You can't blame the chinese for stepping in to meet it...
 
The Chinese are waging economic war with the US and like all good capitalists we are selling them the rope by which they intend to hang us. We in the US are buying off on the horse-pucky about "free Trade" with China. China meanwhile is rolling us over the barrel and we come up grinning.

Well the worm is beginning to turn. China is getting more overt in its metals markets manipulation. It is buying up everything it can get its hands on. In metals where they are primary they are closing down production to raise prices followed by dropping of prices to "gotcha" world companies who entered while prices were high. World metals quality standards are collapsing. Product is priced on shippment. Contracts are thin.

More encouraging is the number of S companies that are edging back to the US. Idiots as they are they leaped long before caluculating the true cost of producing in China. China's and Japan's banking systems are similar in the profit and loss and ability to repay are secondary issues. Primary consideration goes to relationship. Remember that Japan's banking situation was a leading cause of its economic malaise.

Distract the population from its troubles with a war? Why mess with Taiwan? Taiwan can and will bite back plus the uncertainty over what the US will do. Wanna hurt the US? 4 satchel charges, two at each end of the Panama Canal and the US is properly screwed. . . . .thanks to the idiocy of Jimmuh Carter and the treason of Bill Clintoon.
 
Actually, I think that the main theory behind the slowdown is to FORCE a slowdown. If China's economy grows too fast, and it has been growing fast, as the country grows more into a world power, then it'll see some major economic problems. If it grows slowly, allowing the entire entity to grow at the same rate, then we'll see one heck of a market.
 
Sounds like they're trying to reduce lending without raising interest rates...

It's funny about "outsourcing". I recently read that only some 7% of China is arable land. They outsource much of their food supply, with part of it being major purchases of soybeans from the U.S. I dunno about wheat or corn...

They're up to 7% of world oil demand.

They allegedly hold roughly a half-trillion dollars worth of U.S. securities, about the same as Japan.

If they allow the renminbi to float, with full convertability against the euro and the dollar, the prices at WalMart would go up, and their exports would fall dramatically.

"May you live in interesting times," said some Chinese feller, and it's true for them as well as us.

Art
 
Yes, this is old news, but still interesting. China tried strongly to grow their economy through heavy investment. I talked to a girl who lived there for 8 months, and she said every Chinese person's life savings is more or less totally invested in their stock market. The government encourages that behavior. Imagine the dot-com bubble only much bigger.

The scary question is how far are they going to fall when the bubble pops. Because of the high demand for their products by the US market, they have some cushion. Chances are they will have to charge a little more for their products, but that shouldn't hurt us too much. A large increase in prices by their standards is fairly minimal by ours.

Here are the two potentially scary questions.
1. How badly will a burst economy hurt the Chinese population?
2. What impact will this have on world financial markets?

As far as the population is concerned, keep this in mind. A desperate population (read country) is a dangerous one that is more likely to do something stupid. In order to create a distraction (for their own people, not for us), the government could do something rash like carry out threats against Taiwan. Of course, being communist after all, they may simply try to crush their own people to prevent a revolution. As things get worse, expect to see some sabre rattling.

The financial market impact would likely effect us more directly. It holds the potential, especially with jittery investors, to push us towards another recession. It's hard to gauge the extent of that impact right now. It will depend alot on the robustness of the economy when the penny drops. If our economy is strong, it will be more of a serious inconvenience. In a weak or recovering economy, it could be really painful.

I don't see China directly attacking the USA. They know that they're dependent on US consumer demand, and hurting us would bite the hand that feeds them. Then again, desperate people and governments do make stupid decisions. Just look at North Korea.
 
The scary question is how far are they going to fall when the bubble pops. Because of the high demand for their products by the US market, they have some cushion. Chances are they will have to charge a little more for their products, but that shouldn't hurt us too much. A large increase in prices by their standards is fairly minimal by ours.

The danger is of course the rippling effect that higher priced imports will have on our economy. Right now inflation is rip-roaring along despite what greenspan says. Due to the skewed way the CPI measures price increases, for example used car markets and 'owner-equivalent rents', it has been constantly understating inflation since 2000. America is a net-consuming nation, we have been for years. Any increase in the cost of imports will be the straw that breaks the camels back, inflation will likely soar as business try to 'keep' up with rising costs of factors of production. The CRB index, an index of commodities has risen from ~180 in 1999 to 285.08 set a few months ago. Thats basically a 60 percent rise in a few short years. Right now business have been sucking up the increased cost of raw materials, but that can only go on so long, businesses still have to turn a profit. Something like a rise in the price of chinese products (either naturally or through tariffs such as those proposed by our friend Chuckie Schumer) would basically open a flood gate of rapidly rising prices.

As far as the population is concerned, keep this in mind. A desperate population (read country) is a dangerous one that is more likely to do something stupid. In order to create a distraction (for their own people, not for us), the government could do something rash like carry out threats against Taiwan. Of course, being communist after all, they may simply try to crush their own people to prevent a revolution. As things get worse, expect to see some sabre rattling.

I don't think we have to worry that much. I mean look at Japan, when they crashed and burned in the early 1990's they didn't attack formosa or the kamchatka peninsula. They sucked it up, tightened their belts, and did what the government told them to. I see no reason why the chinese would behave any differently.



The financial market impact would likely effect us more directly. It holds the potential, especially with jittery investors, to push us towards another recession. It's hard to gauge the extent of that impact right now. It will depend alot on the robustness of the economy when the penny drops. If our economy is strong, it will be more of a serious inconvenience. In a weak or recovering economy, it could be really painful.

Investors aren't jittery. If investors were jittery the stock market would be at or below long-term P/E ratios. Unfortunatly, they are so blinded by bullishness they have bid the S&P and nasdaq to insane P/E ratios. However, mob psychology does hold sway, and when people seriously realize how overvalued the equities are right now, it could indeed be a rush for the exits. That won't "push us towards a recession" it will simply acknowledge we never ironed out the structurarl imbalances that caused the 2000-2001 bear market.
"It will depend alot on the robustness of the economy when the penny drops."
Our economy isn't robust, it is currently skating on 2 years of artificially low interest rates. People are squandering the equity in their homes on flat screen plasma TV's and new SUV's. With interest rates this low people are purchasing houses at insane prices "because after all with interest rates this low we can afford the monthly payment". Woe unto the poor saps who've purchased expensive homes with adjustable rate mortgages. When interest rates rise and home prices correct, they'll end up with huge monthly payments on an upside-down mortgage, not an enviable position.

I don't see China directly attacking the USA. They know that they're dependent on US consumer demand, and hurting us would bite the hand that feeds them. Then again, desperate people and governments do make stupid decisions. Just look at North Korea.

Good luck to them, they couldn't get a troop transport within a thousand miles of our coastline, and any Dong Feng ICBM's they send would be overwhelmed 10 to 1 by a retaliatory strike, incinerating better than 500 million chinese people. I don't think they'd be that stupid.

atek3
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top