Cip vs Sammi max pressure for 357

[AJC1]

The Sammi limit is 35kpsi. Looking at the lovex load data listed max pressure is 43.5kpsi. I tried to look at their spec but it's in bar. Any issues loading to the lovex standard. The shooter's world powder and lovex are very different for the same powder.
Lovex 158= 13.4 @ 43,500 psi
Sw 12.3 @ 34,556 psi.
Sw heavy pistol is lovex 37.2

 

[MEHavey]

SAAMI-v-CIP are apples and oranges ... w/ a few bananas thrown in
(357Mag being one of them in particular)

Read through here: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529719 before making any decisions.

 

[AJC1]

SAAMI-v-CIP are apples and oranges ... w/ a few bananas thrown in
(357Mag being one of them in particular)

Read through here: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529719 before making any decisions.

This is why I asked really. I was just shooting 14.9 grains of #9 for 1750 out of my 16" marlin. They claim, and I'm a tester that heavy pistol is close to #9. Based on initial data it's not even close. I have two pounds and I'll use my standard extraction testing.
Hornaday says 11.7 Speer says 13.7 and Lyman 50th says 14.9. That's a huge spread on the 158. I'm shooting everglades and zero bullets. Hogden says 13.8 so I'm probably over pressure using lyman.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I asked awhile back about the Italian Peacemaker copies being proofed to CIP versus SAAMI maybe being stronger than the American .357’s and got about the same response: different ways of measuring the pressure of nearly identical proofing loads. Every proof house is a little different which already introduces variations but the two systems are practically identical in end result. A Pietta six gun is pretty close to Ruger Blackhawk strength. In theory.

So, how close to pretty close do you want to get to losing your hand?

 

[AJC1]

I asked awhile back about the Italian Peacemaker copies being proofed to CIP versus SAAMI maybe being stronger than the American .357’s and got about the same response: different ways of measuring the pressure of nearly identical proofing loads. Every proof house is a little different which already introduces variations but the two systems are practically identical in end result. A Pietta six gun is pretty close to Ruger Blackhawk strength. In theory.

So, how close to pretty close do you want to get to losing your hand?

I was trying to understand the corilation between powders and I was operating out of bounds by using a source that is obviously very different. If it's in a book it's not me just going for the moon if you will. Taking other data sets like the most conservative Hornaday they appear much closer than the Lyman data set. I haven't cross referenced pistol like I had rifle until now. I'm very curious what the 51st has as a 158 #9 load.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Do want to know the rifle data or pistol data from the 51st?

 

[AJC1]

Do want to know the rifle data or pistol data from the 51st?

All #9 data, although the speed should be the only difference....

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Ok im going to sigh off here on my PC and log in on the laptap in my man cave brb.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was trying to understand the corilation between powders and I was operating out of bounds by using a source that is obviously very different. If it's in a book it's not me just going for the moon if you will. Taking other data sets like the most conservative Hornaday they appear much closer than the Lyman data set. I haven't cross referenced pistol like I had rifle until now. I'm very curious what the 51st has as a 158 #9 load.

I loaded the Fiocchi 142gr FMJ-TC over an equivalent amount of Accurate 4100 to produce the advertised velocity for Fiocchi .357 Target and it shot POA and under 3” (unsupported, off-hand, single hand hold) at 25yds. Compared to factory Fiocchi Target 1:1 from the Pietta/Great Western II 5.5”. That gun typically requires a 12 o’clock hold but that load shot best with a 6 o’clock hold Just messing around to test the theory and it played out pretty well. I’d say the EU loading data compares pretty close to SAAMI if you look at apples to apples - bullet, case, primer (spec) - data. Shot high in the Ruger.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Ok 158 jacketed hollow points 13.4-14.9 1158-1357 FPS. Cast they have 155 and 160 grain. The 155 is 13.0-14.5 998-1221 FPS. 160 GRAIN 12.3-13.7. 1123-1350 FPS. Rifle same loads for all. Velocity for the 158 H.P 1639-1774. 155 CAST 1628-1785. No listing for 160 gn.

 

[AJC1]

I loaded the Fiocchi 142gr FMJ-TC over an equivalent amount of Accurate 4100 to produce the advertised velocity for Fiocchi .357 Target and it shot POA and under 3” (unsupported, off-hand, single hand hold) at 25yds. Compared to factory Fiocchi Target 1:1 from the Pietta/Great Western II 5.5”. That gun typically requires a 12 o’clock hold but that load shot best with a 6 o’clock hold Just messing around to test the theory and it played out pretty well. I’d say the EU loading data compares pretty close to SAAMI if you look at apples to apples - bullet, case, primer (spec) - data. Shot high in the Ruger.

Trying to do a reasonable powder comparison means I do the research to make safe loads in an apples to apples comparison. I will not exceed a book max by more than a tenth to make an even ladder. Looking at the sw/lovex loads is what started my digging. The extraction wasn't bad even at 14.9. I've had bad extraction on a true blue load that I had to pound out. No love for that powder or their data. The start 8.8 load has sticky extraction and I have considered trying an 8.6 just to see. Anyway if the 51st data is different and is now in psi that would give me reasons to get that new manual but I doubt it.

 

[AJC1]

Ok 158 jacketed hollow points 13.4-14.9 1158-1357 FPS. Cast they have 155 and 160 grain. The 155 is 13.0-14.5 998-1221 FPS. 160 GRAIN 12.3-13.7. 1123-1350 FPS. Rifle same loads for all. Velocity for the 158 H.P 1639-1774. 155 CAST 1628-1785. No listing for 160 gn.

Same as before. I was hoping beyond hope they would update.... thank you.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Here is from the 48th. I have it in PDF. The same too.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The Western manual is in PSI but doesn’t list separately pistol vs rifle in .357.