Coach gun for protection - recommendations please

[BullfrogKen]

I have some family members that live in Maryland. They've realized the young son of the next door neighbor has graduated into doing hot home invasions.

I've had some long conversations with them, aunt and uncle, and they've decided to get a shotgun for the house.

They are willing to work with me to learn the gun, but they're not gun people. We need to keep it simple and effective. I'd like them try out a double-barrel coach gun first. I did a little searching, but I'm not at all up to speed on what's in the market for these shotguns.


Can you folks help me a bit?

What's still in production that has these characteristics:

• 20" barrel lengths
• a rubber buttplate
• internal hammers
• fixed chokes, anywhere from IC to Mod range

Ejectors are preferred, but its not a deal-breaker if they only extract.
Double triggers are neat, but they might be better off with a single trigger. But all a double trigger model will do is add an hour onto the training schedule, so it's no biggie.

So, what's still in production? What can you comment on from experience in terms of quality?

If something decent meets those criteria, but it's recently out of production yet plentiful in the used market, mention it and I'll see if I can track one down.


Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[sm]

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_guns.php

Recommend 20 gauge, Wood stock to allow tweaking gun fit, and these have fixed chokes, which is what I recommend anyway.

Do not rule out the English Stock, if there is anyway for them to try a English Stocked shotgun of any kind, do so.
I like English Stocks...

Re: Gun fit, now you know these folks and will have to determine if the Adult, or Youth is best.

There is only one recoil pad : Pachmayr
http://www.lymanproducts.com/pachmayr/index.htm

Real serious tip:
Gun fit is the key, Pachmary compliments gun fit best.

Then tweak the Pach and gun fit.

Recoil pads in general:
Do not / Never get a recoil pad with pronounced "grippy" lines or ridges especially those running horizontal
Do not/ never get a "thick and soft" recoil pad, the ideas might sound good, but it does not work.
The above recoil pads impede correct mounting of gun to face.
They also impede correcting a bad mount as they do not let a shooter "adjust" as they grab and grip.



Decelerator is my number 1 recommendation - period.
D752B, http://www.lymanproducts.com/pachmayr/index.htm

Gun fit, encompassing LOP, Cast on/Cast off, Pitch, and then fit a Pach Decel ... and...Contour toe, heel to furthermore assist in correct mounting of gun to face, and lessening a bad mount, and increasing the speed with practice of getting 4 shots off in a hurry.

752B, Classic Old English with leather face is another favorite of mine.
One of these is on a Bounty Hunter, with one bore 45-70 and the other 12 bore with slugs, for "business and socials". A couple of ladies with a family business and I got together for their needs and includes a warehouse type setting.
They have one-way mirrors too...with cover tested up to 30-06 , around them mirrors. You really don't want to be a criminal and mess with these ladies...

http://www.lymanproducts.com/pachmayr/index.htm
Check out the Pre Fit, still scroll on down to Slip Ons.
These are very good and are on some serious situation shotguns.
These also assist in tweaking fit.
Call Lyman to see offerings that might not be on website.

Ken,
You know more about this than I do, just that is my take.


For the benefit of others, light target loads will be used to instruct and practice, and 5 packs of various 2 3/4" buckshot and slugs will be bought and shot at a pattern board, for pattern and groups. Then whatever the gun likes, is what will be bought for serious use.

Oh yeah, almost forgot for the new folks too.
Thumb does not go over the stock, thumbs stay on the same side as trigger finger.

 

[Dave McCracken]

No direct experience, Ken, but the Baikals have some good ink here.

Did play with a Rossi way back. Uninspiring but a solid shooter.

Give your people my cell number. I'll be glad to walk them through some Shotgun 101 at PGC.

 

[kentucky_smith]

If something decent meets those criteria, but it's recently out of production yet plentiful in the used market, mention it and I'll see if I can track one down.

Stevens 311, 5100 FoxB, et al.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Ken,

A SxS shotgun is a reasonable choice for a defensive gun for non-gun people. Personally I'd rather find a good used Stevens 311 or the equivalent and get the barrels cut down, the stock shortened and a good recoil pad installed. The current production coach guns I have handled, while solid enough mechanically, tend to be awfully stiff feeling to me as far as their actions are concerned. Chokes or the lack of them shouldn't be a big deal at true home defense ranges.

Personally I'd rather not depend on a single trigger double for defensive use. Double triggers are actually more simple as far as the mechanics go. Even if one side of the action breaks, the other side should still work- it's basically two guns in one.

There's a Sears- branded 311 in 20 gauge here. It was shortened decades ago (late 1970s) and has a buttplate, not a recoil pad. It got to be a bit much recoil wise for my mom (at 80-something) to handle a while back and we got her a Beretta Storm carbine in 9mm to replace it as her 'house gun'. This one has 18.5" barrels, a 12" LOP and is 33" long overall. I don't know how much it weighs, I'm afraid- I don't have a scale. More weight is better as a rule as it helps with felt recoil.

The only problem with 20 gauges is that AFAIK there is no reduced recoil ammo suitable for defensive use in that gauge. All things considered, I'd rather get a 12 gauge and use reduced recoil ammo if recoil mitigation is an issue. Fiocchi's low recoil 00 buckshot is about the softest recoiling I have found so far.

hth,

lpl

 

[BullfrogKen]

Cowboy shooters had a match today. I had some business to take care of at the club so I stopped by and talked with one of the shooters there I know.

Personally I'd rather find a good used Stevens 311 or the equivalent and get the barrels cut down, the stock shortened and a good recoil pad installed.

He mentioned he had one of these, with shortened barrels, that he'd let go for $250. I'll have to take a look at it before I decide to say yes. He mentioned the barrels were shortened in an odd way. They were cut down to less than 16" and build back up with sections to make it legal without the stamp. Perhaps something to do with maintaining some fixed chokes? I'll have to see it to find out.


Steve, I've looked at the Stoegers. I asked my preferred dealer about getting one. He said they've gone up significantly in price from what they sold for a few years ago, and the quality isn't as great as they once were.

He's actually recommending a Remington branded import now. The SPR220. Anyone have any experience with them?

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/SPR_models/SPR220_side-by-side_specs.asp

 

[MAKster]

The Remington Spartan is made in Russia. It's the Baikal. I think the Stoeger is better. I would absolutely avoid any gun where someone cut the barrel too short and then added length back to the barrel. Did he weld the cut off piece back on? That sounds like bad news to me. As they say, measure twice, cut once.

 

[sm]

Ken,

Remember our communication about this?

Go find a Youth H&R 20 ga Single Shot as I suggested. Any of the ones I shared with you, and I still feel the one I have, is hard to beat for what you want to do.

Even if you do find this person a double bbl, there will be another person in need down the road.

I am so ticked off at how gun mfgs keep messing everything up.

At least I have one shotgun left from all the guns I had over the years and this Youth Single Shot 20 ga will do its part, if I do mine.

 

[Taffnevy]

If they have no prior experience, I would steer them away from a coach gun.

I would recommend an 870 pump-action. A Wingmaster if they can swing it.

 

[sm]

No disrespect, still I disagree on 870 versus a break action gun for a person with no experience.

1. Some folks are not into guns, and the break action, be this a Single Shot, SxS, or O/U , allows them a more Peace of Mind in doing Administrative Tasks.
Load, Unload, Make Safe.
Especially those with kids, or elderly under the same roof.

2. Less is more.
Manual of arms is simple. One reason most homes when I was growing up, had a single shot , often times a Youth Model, behind the door was the simple fact anyone in the house could use that shotgun if need. From Kids, Teenagers, Adult, Elderly, and even many of the Physically limited.
I grew up with Veterans of previous Wars living close, some with amputations, plus Polio victims were ofter limited in physical ability.

I can get and have gotten a lady up to speed in 10 min with a single shot shotgun and give me 30 min total and I will have up to speed with a Revolver.


My experiences go back to when I was born in the mid 50's and Mentors & Elders were assisting folks. Now back then, we had battered and abused ladies and kids too
Sometimes hard times hit a family or area. So we as a community , just being neighborly, as there was no 911, or anything like today, passed out , with ammo, Single shot, and Two Barrel shotguns, and Revolvers.

i.e Tornado rips through and destroys a home, and guns, along with everything else is - who knows where?
Aftermath of Storms with Flooding, Fires, and other disasters.

I was a wee brat assisting in all this, and I went down to pass out single shots and revolvers after Katrina hit, and last year, did this as well when multiple tornadoes ripped through, then flooding hit.
I have done this too many times in my lifetime.
My point being, all my life something continues to work, and it still works today, and will tomorrow, and in the future.

I am 53 years old, and Mentrors were doing the simple break action before I was born for the Same reasons Ken inquires in OP.

These break open guns are not only "friendly" to folks new to guns, and kids, family, also in a court of law, if matters get that serious and even friendly in areas of the country where Politics are not gun friendly.

Awerbuck travels with a double bbl shotgun for these reasons.
Clint Smith keeps a single shot 20 ga bedside as well, for many of the reasons stated above.

Manual of Arms can be overwhelming to a new person, especially one that has been beaten, abused, sexually assaulted, raped, injured...
Add any kids that suffered the same
They are in fear, they do not trust a Restraining Order.

So all sorts of steps are done, to keep them safe. This is what I grew up doing, and "firearms" are just part of the toolbox, not the toolbox.

Matters get serious, with all the other stressors, Less is More.

It means a lot to a lady to be able to see the state a gun is in , with a kid under the roof , and both have been though serious life trauma's.

I beg to differ.

I also happen to know a bit more about what Ken is dealing with in regard to the person that will be recipient of the shotgun.

-s

 

[Will Fennell]

Good break open single shot can get a lot of work done

Ken,
I'm with SM on this one......not many problems a homeowner can't solve with a dependable break open single shot 20 ga. Youth models have shorter barrel lenght and shorter stocks.....I would put on a basic sling, a decent recoil pad, and a simple butt cuff for a ready selection of spare ammo.....

 

[wnycollector]

not many problems a homeowner can't solve with a dependable break open single shot 20 ga.

I agree!! check out clint smith w/ a single shot starting at 1:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw&feature=related

As an aside, I picked up two of the rossi .22lr/20ga youth combos from Dicks last weeks for both of my sons. They are pretty decent little shotguns for $99 brand spankin new!

 

[boomcrash]

I am in my 60's, and have plenty of "experience" with shotguns. I have a wingmaster 18" extended mag and an 870 Marine magnum. I prefer the H&R single 12g, because everyone in the house can pick it up and use it with profiency...and I like it.

 

[Bill B.]

He mentioned he had one of these, with shortened barrels, that he'd let go for $250. I'll have to take a look at it before I decide to say yes. He mentioned the barrels were shortened in an odd way. They were cut down to less than 16" and build back up with sections to make it legal without the stamp. Perhaps something to do with maintaining some fixed chokes? I'll have to see it to find out.

Personally I wouldn't wish to touch that one! I have had a bunch of shotguns cut over the years and never cut one shorter than 18 1/4 just to be on the safe side. I prefer 22 inches on those that I plan on using myself so that was what I always cut Winchester 97's to when I was using them for CAS.

The Stoeger Coach would be a better choice for non gun people than getting one that has been tinkered with IMO. Price won't be much more either ..........