COL for 9mm-does +/- a few thousndths matter?

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I have loaded 9mm ammo for 5+ yrs but have this question: will seating depth of bullet that varies by a few .001's matter? Never seem to be able to get all COL's exactly the same. No problems with "plunk test" and all seem to function well and accurate also. My powder is either Titegroup or CFE-Pistol....no MAX loads. I do understand bullet profile will mean different COL for my CZ's chamber, anyway what ya think?
 
It will matter very little. Depending on your seating die it may be seating the bullet on the ojive rather than the tip of the bullet which will result in some variation. Either way a few thousands of an inch is going to show up. A human hair is about .003". Even a slight variation in the case head could change the measurement.
 
A few thousanths is nothing to sweat about. I actually find it pretty tough to get much, if any, better than .002 or .003 with my run-of-the-mill reloading gear.

I doubt you'll notice much of a difference if you keep your variance below a hundreth. Unless of course, you are running on the ragged edge of pressure limits.

Ever measured factory ammo? It can be downright ugly.

Ps. I found that sorting my brass made my OALs much more predictable. The difference in neck tension, not the case length, is the culprit.
 
Midrange load in 9mm

The .015 OAL change made about 30fps difference
I have seen about the same difference with a couple bullet powder combos,
with about .02 OAL change but would never take it as a given.
A.02 OAL change could always be the straw that broke the camels back, kaboom.
Now as far as .002 you would might see a measurable difference but I doubt it.

Mixed range brass, charges as thrown after setting measure, S+B SPs, 5" 9mm 1911


Hi Vel: 1068
Low Vel: 1040
Ave Vel: 1055
Ext Spread: 28
Std Dev: 10
RMR 124gr MPR JHP 4.4 wsSF 1.065
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1058 131.192 308.173
1050 130.2 303.53
1059 131.316 308.756
1040 128.96 297.776
1068 132.432 314.026



Hi Vel: 1037
Low Vel: 1012
Ave Vel: 1021
Ext Spread: 25
Std Dev: 9
RMR 124gr MPR JHP 4.5 WSF 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1021 126.604 286.995
1018 126.232 285.311
1012 125.488 281.958
1020 126.48 286.433
1037 128.588 296.061
 
As quantified by Dudedog, 9mm is pretty sensitive to changes in seating depth. But you aren't measuring seating depth.

Due to bullet variation you'll nearly always measure a few thousandths difference in overall length. With bullet variation being the typical cause of these minor fluctuations, seating to where they all measure precisely the same doesn't necessarily mean the seating depth is identical on each. What I"m saying is there's really nothing to be done, and nothing you could do if you wanted to.
 
Due to bullet variation you'll nearly always measure a few thousandths difference in overall length. With bullet variation being the typical cause of these minor fluctuations, seating to where they all measure precisely the same doesn't necessarily mean the seating depth is identical on each. What I"m saying is there's really nothing to be done, and nothing you could do if you wanted to.
Really?

There are plenty you can do to produce more consistent finished/chambered OAL/COL:
  • You can use shorter working OAL (case wall gets thicker towards case base) to increase neck tension
  • Resize brass separately to reduce shell plate tilt/deflection
  • Reload on single stage press
  • Sort brass by headstamp
  • Use more consistent bullet
  • Use slightly larger sized bullet
I found that sorting my brass made my OALs much more predictable. The difference in neck tension, not the case length, is the culprit.
If you are reloading on progressive press with shell plate and experience OAL variation from different headstamp, chances are you are experiencing shell plate tilt/deflection from different resistance while resizing brass, not from neck tension. ;)

On a single stage press, OAL variation is limited by maximum ram travel and bullet seating stem contact with bullet's ogive.

If you want to reduce OAL variance from shell plate tilt/deflection, make sure the shell plate is not lose. If tightening the shell plate does not change anything, consider separately resizing your brass (which also allows you to inspect primer pockets/clean as necessary and hand prime/press prime cases separately). Using resized and primed brass not only reduces OAL variation but also makes progressive reloading effortless as you are only flaring case mouth, powder charging, bullet seating and crimping.

Since most RN bullet seating stems push on the side of bullet (instead of very tip), bullets with more consistent ogive will produce more consistent OAL/COL. While jacketed bullets tend to be more consistent than plated bullets, keep in mind bullet manufacturer as Speer Gold Dot and TMJ are thick plated bullets. With more consistent bullets, I can reduce OAL variance with my Lee dies down to less than .005". With RMR's in-house jacketed bullets made from new dies/machinery and more consistent lead alloy core, I can average less than .003".

BUT what's more important than finished OAL is bullet setback and chambered OAL. To check for sufficient neck tension to resist bullet setback when the bullet nose slams on the feed ramp, I measure OAL before and after I feed dummy rounds (no powder/no primer) from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it. I prefer no bullet setback but will accept bullet setback of a few thousandths. If I measure more than .005", I consider neck tension inadequate and will investigate to make sure I am full-length resizing the brass and only minimally flaring the case mouth.

If die adjustment and minimal flaring of case mouth does not resolve the neck tension issue, check the bullet diameter as not all 9mm bullets are size the same - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...re-sized-the-same.818806/page-2#post-10567453

Also, many factory barrels have oversized groove-to-groove diameter and benefit from slightly larger than .355" sized bullets which improve neck tension. When using slightly larger sized (.3555") RMR jacketed bullets and plated bullets (.356"+), I essentially do not experience any bullet setback which when factored with finished OAL being more consistent will produce more consistent chambered OAL and bullet seating depth which will produce more consistent chamber pressures for more consistent muzzle velocities, lower SD numbers and smaller shot groups.
 
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Yes, really.
Since most RN bullet seating stems push on the side of bullet (instead of very tip), bullets with more consistent ogive will produce more consistent OAL/COL. While jacketed bullets tend to be more consistent than plated bullets, keep in mind bullet manufacturer as Speer Gold Dot and TMJ are thick plated bullets. With more consistent bullets, I can reduce OAL variance with my Lee dies down to less than .005". With RMR's in-house jacketed bullets made from new dies/machinery and more consistent lead alloy core, I can average less than .003".
These are exactly the sort of variances he's describing - a few thousandths. Along with the semi-relevant information you admit you suffer exactly the same variations, which you attribute to the same cause I did.
 
To those who experience OAL/COL variation problem, I hope my post helped.

CZ9shooter, I am sorry for correcting your post but information you posted about neck tension determining finished OAL is incorrect.

ray15. I was mainly responding to your post that nothing can be done which I have quoted in bold. I usually try to post correct and accurate information so reloaders don't experience significant bullet setback which for small case volume 9mm can affect chamber pressures in a hurry and deteriorate accuracy.
 
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ray15. I tried to post correct and accurate information so reloaders don't experience significant bullet setback which for small case volume 9mm can affect chamber pressures in a hurry and deteriorate accuracy.
The thing is, I not only tried but did correctly identify the cause of his issue, and pointed out there's nothing to be done about it. Post what you wish - but perhaps stop short of 'correcting' posts that don't need it.
 
hot chili powder, hope I was able to help explain and offered some solutions to improve finished OAL variation.

But it's the chambered OAL/bullet seating depth that really matter and to a lesser degree finished OAL. ;)
 
A .005 spread in 9MM OALs for the same bullet is very common. If it is worse than that you can likely bring it down to that. Less than a .005 spread can sometimes be achieved. I wouldn't sweat a .008 spread though.

When I load 115 gr RN I set it up so they come out from1.130 to 1.135 OAL. I don't measure them all, and it is certainly possible a few fall outside that range.

The RMR 90 Gr JHP must fit my seater stem very well, because I logged it at 1.065 OAL +/- .001, but again, I didn't measure them all.

I logged the X-Treme 124 Gr "HP" at 1.060 OAL for the last load I tried with it, but that is just lazy record keeping, as I know that is an average.

I do not size while loading on the LNL, which helps keep down OAL spread.
 
A .005 spread +/- has been normal for me, with no effects. The ammo I make is strictly target, mixed range brass, but never had an issue with it.
 
Thanks for all the info, will not worry about it now as long as my COLs are within +/- .005". I use Hornaday 115 gr HAP or XST bullets or Nosler 115 gr JHPs.....seated to COL of 1.095 or less depending on bullet profile. Have tried seating out longer but my CZ chamber must be short, "plunk test" fails if much over 1.100". Good shootin' guys!!!
 
I sort and trim by brand name all my rifle hulls for reloading.
I don't sort or trim any pistol or revolver hulls for reloading. I do plunk test 9 mm, 40 cal, and soon I hope, .45 Colt. I also check the O/L of the loaded cartridge, knowing it will vary a few thousands either way. It's a fact of reloading that there will be some variance. I'm willing to live with that instead of adding more operations and make it a job instead of a hobby.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
 
Have tried seating out longer but my CZ chamber must be short, "plunk test" fails if much over 1.100". Good shootin' guys!!!

Yes, CZ chambers are shorter than most. On the 75-type guns anyhow. Some of their newer stuff might be different, idk. OAL is almost a non-issue with the other brands of 9mm that I have loaded for, but CZs need to be short, especially when using bullets with an abrupt profile.
 
hot chili powder, adding to my post #9 for factors that contribute to OAL variation, if bullet tilts or gets seated slightly crooked, it will also affect OAL.

I noticed this with Winchester 115 gr FMJ when I kept seeing pronounced bulge on one side of the case neck as shown in below picture.

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After increasing the case mouth flare slightly to ensure bullet base just barely set inside the flare, I was able to eliminate the one-sided bulge and bulging was even all around the case neck, which for me indicated bullets were seated more straight.

index.php
 
I use Hornaday 115 gr HAP or XST bullets or Nosler 115 gr JHPs
But it's the chambered OAL/bullet seating depth that really matter
What's more important than slight variation of OAL by a few thousandths is bullet setback after finished rounds are chambered as significant bullet setback will increase chamber pressure (even compress powder charge if bullet base is close to powder) and decrease accuracy if setback amount is inconsistent.

Are you experiencing bullet setback after rounds are chambered from the magazine and slide released without riding it?
 
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I took a random sample of my latest reloads.
Target 1.120 OAL
The ten rounds came in @ +/-.001
 
As long as you are not on the ragged edge of pressure, getting into the lands, or causing malfunctions due to length I think a few thousands variation is no trouble at all. Heck, some bullets are not even made that well lol.

Unless I am loading precision or long range stuff I wouldnt sweat it. I did see setback mentioned. THAT is the big one to watch for. Make sure you have good neck tension.
 
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