Colt Commander woes

[Silent Bob]

I got a Colt Commander I'm trying to "debug" myself before sending back to Colt. While Colt will gladly send a fedex call tag these days for sending a gun back for warranty repair, I am trying to postpone this because the last time I sent them a gun about a year ago they had it for two months before sending it back to me.

I have done a search, on various gun forums, before posting this.

As said, gun is a Colt Commander. Ammo over the course of 500 rounds has been an assortment of factory 230gr ball.

Springs used have been Wolff 18lb and factory Colt (not sure of poundage, but slightly weaker then the Wolff which is factory spec)

Mags have been Colt hybrids with factory springs, a pair of Colt hybrids upgraded with new Wolff 11lb springs and Checkmate GI feed lip mags also upgraded with Wolff springs.

The malfunctions with the USGI mags are live round stovepipes, always on the next to last round in the magazine.

With the hybrids, I am getting not only live round stovepipes, on the next to last round, but I am also getting last round failures to feed, including some that nearly chamber but stop just short, and others where the round is just starting to go into the chamber. The first kind was resolved by pushing the slide closed with my thumb, the second kind are easily resolved with a tap-rack-bag. Happens with both types of magazine spring.

Sorry no pictures of the jams.

With my search, the usual answer to the live round stovepipes is "too strong recoil spring, weak magazine spring". Well, the kicker with that is that it does with both recoil springs, and the magazine springs in the Colt hybrids are brand-new but have been broken-in for a week after being left loaded with 7 rounds. The springs in the USGI mags are older but have had only approx 1,000 rounds thru the pair together. The factory pair have the weak factory springs.

The failures to feed didn't start until today, after about 300 rounds with only the occasional live round stovepipe on the next to last round.

I'm thinking extractor tension is loose, but gun passes the unscientific "shake test". Also, loose extractor tension wouldn't account for the failures to feed, at least as far as I know. In short, gun has exhibited failures to feed with both types of hybrid, but not the USGI. Get live round stovepipes on second to last round with both.

I have systematically tried a different combination of the recoil springs and magazines but things only seem to be getting worse. Don't know where else to look.

Would appreciate some theories on what is going on. Thanks in advance.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springs used have been Wolff 18lb and factory Colt (not sure of poundage, but slightly weaker then the Wolff which is factory spec)

This is a contradiction. Factory spec is the original spring...which is about 16 pounds.
Use the OEM spring. Colt knows more about the Commander than the gun magazines and internet shills.

With any feed malfunction, the magazine is always the first suspect. Always. That the magazine is new doesn't change that. Anything mass-produced can be out of spec.

 

[Silent Bob]

Sorry Tuner, that was bad typing on my part, I think I was going back and inserting something in my sentence, and repeated the "factory spec" part.

But for that matter the gun failed, at least as much if not more so with the factory recoil spring then the Wolff.

I am trying to figure out the second to last round thing.

I did state though in my original post that I used six magazines, two Colt hybrids with stock springs, two Colt hybrids with new Wolff 11lb springs, and two Checkmate USGI mags with Wolff 11lb springs.

I have tried both sets of recoil springs, though I did not use the stock-springed hybrids with the Wolff 18lb recoil spring. I see no point in trying that combination.

Malfunctions across the board. All six mags can't be bad, but that would be my luck. The USGIs work fine with my Government Model.

At a loss for ideas.

 

[1911Tuner]

Live round stovepipes re called "Bolt Over Base" misfeeds. Basically, the slide outruns the magazine spring and catches the case in the extractor groove instead of pushing on the back of the rim. So, if it's not the magazine spring, it's short recoil or the slide is returning so fast the mag spring can't keep up.

Are the mag springs in backward? Upside down? Any visible damage to the magazines that would slow the rounds ascent?

If there's a shock buff in the gun, take it out.

 

[critter]

I had a Colt stainless Commander that acted much the same way. I added extra strength mag springs and, if I hold it snugly like I am supposed to, it works just fine now.

 

[Auto426]

Do you have any magazines that haven't been messed with? I noticed that you keep referring to all of your magazines as hybrids, which leads me to believe that they have had parts swapped out.

I have two recent production Colt 1911's, and both work fine with the supplied stock Colt magazines and a Wilson 47D that I have. One of the magazines needed to settle in a little and caused 2 miss feeds in my 1991, but it's since started behaving itself.

 

[Silent Bob]

No shok-buff... all springs appear to be installed correctly in the magazines. Possible mags could be out of spec or feed lips are spread... but if so that would be especially dismaying, since it would be occurring with all six mags I have tried with it, the two brand-new totally stock Colt hybrids, two Colt hybrids upgraded with new-but-broken-in Wolff 11lb springs, and two fairly used Checkmate USGI mags (with Wolff 11lb springs). The USGI mags have fed ball slicker then snot in my Colt 1991 Government Model. The feed lips look fine to my untrained eye but I have no way right now at least of measuring them. Will need to find someone with some calipers or buy my own I guess.

Could be limp-wristing... but the only malfunctions only occur when there are less then three rounds in the magazine. The second to last round is when 90% of the malfunctions have occurred. Mostly live round stovepipes which always happen on the second to last round. My last round malfs have always been failures to feed, and there may have been a couple of failures to feed on second to last rounds (should have kept notes instead of relying on memory)

Of course, limp-wristing could come into play as the gun gets lighter as the rounds in the mag get fired off, but I don't think that's the issue here.

I am aware of bolt-over-base misfeeds (mostly from your writings Tuner), but in all my research before I posted my thread the OP is always reporting that it occurs on the last round, never the second to last.

Certainly sounds like a magazine problem, but with such a cross-section of test magazines, all six being bad, is certainly dismaying.

I think the recoil spring is playing an issue, but I get the same problem with the stock and the Wolff spring. I think I noticed the failures to feed occurring with the stock spring however.

I normally eschew mags with parallel (wadcutter) feed lips, and don't feel like they would help in this situation anyway.

This one is a stumper. I feel like it is something simple, but still eluding me. I can't believe I would have that many bad mags.

 

[Silent Bob]

Auto426, yes I have the two stock Colt mags with stock springs that have not been messed with.

"Hybrid mags" has kind of become the internet term for Colt OEM mags, mostly made by Checkmate, that have feed lips that are a cross between the old tapered feed lip USGI mags optimized for feeding ball and modern parallel (wadcutter) feed lips, found in Wilson, McCormick, etc mags. Kind of a best of both worlds thing.

 

[1911Tuner]

I dunno, Bob. Too bad you're in Texas. I'd like to take a crack at it and see where that bug is nestin'.

Just for giggles...lock the slide back and look at the front, around the bushing lug raceway area to see if anything looks funky. I had one acting like yours once and the slide was cracked there after the owner had used a 20-pound spring that was stacking into coil bind. I didn't spot the crack, but the slide finally let go and spit the recoil spring and plug downrange. Colt fixed him up with a new slide and the problems went away.

Auto426...L-R...Full-tapered Hardball...Hybrid...Wadcutter. DUe to the slide misalignment, it's not apparent, but the Hybrid's timed release point is slightly later than the Wadcutter's, but slightly earlier than the Hardball's.

 

[Silent Bob]

Thanks for your time Tuner. I did as you suggested and looked at the bushing area but see nothing awry. I guess I have no choice but to send it back to Colt, but doubt they will figure out what is going on either. More then likely they will just polish the feed ramp, maybe mess with the throat a little, tune the extractor and ship back after two months with a note that says "meets factory specs". I was prepared for some issues when I bought this gun (have had only one 1911 out of quite a few to actually run "out of the box" but generally Colts function better for me then the other brands) but figured any gremlins would be solved with some trial and error testing.

Very disappointing.

 

[Old Fuff]

I have taken an oath to never again get involved in threads concerning trouble-shooting 1911 platforms, as they take up my time and usually turn out to be a waste of bandwidth. I recently (against my better judgment) did get into one over a drop-in 2 or 2 1/2 pound trigger pull, and I wish I'd never done it.

But here I am again.

You might consider going to a firing pin stop with a small radius on the bottom. This will slow the slide, and may be enough for the feeding cartridge to get high enough to prevent a stovepipe. If you don't understand, Tuner can explain.

Now I'll go away because it this doesn't work I don't have an answer either.

 

[Silent Bob]

I have heard about the small radius firing pin stop modification. It would be worth trying.

 

[Old Fuff]

Maybe... See what Tuner says.

Also I presume the pistol has a stock hammer spring, or if it doesn't it should. The firing pin stop would do much more to slow the slide's cyclic speed then playing with recoil springs.

While looking at remote possibilities check to be sure the extractor isn’t clocking and in doing so preventing the cartridge rim from coming under the hook.

 

[Silent Bob]

Yes, stock hammer spring.