Colt Police Positive 38 trade?

[Huntolive]

Someone offered to trade me a Colt police positive 38 s&w from 1928 in excellent condition plus $200 cash and 3 boxes of ammo for my excellent condition Smith & Wesson 65 - 2.

Is 38 Smith & Wesson a different caliber from 38 Special?
I'm not a big fan of 38 but shoot a lot of 357, but I don't really trust the 65 - 2 with 357 and I never really shoot it even though it's very pretty and has a super smooth trigger, as I have many other more rugged and accurate 357s.
I had been selling my Revolver for $525

What are your thoughts on this trade value?

What is your experience on the quality and reliability of a typical colt police positive?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Uhhhh, is it a Police Positive, or Police Positive SPECIAL?

A regular PP is chambered for .38 S&W, more expensive, less powerful, and harder to find.

Ive had a 65 and many PPs. I would keep the S&W.

Early PPs have a very awkward grip angle, almost a birdshead-

They tend to whack my knuckles, and my hands arent particularly big. They changed the grip after WW2 in response to this complaint. Postwar guns still usually have rather tiny grip panels which do not give great control even with the revised angle.

The PP is built on the Colt D-frame, which is kinda dainty. Although they can handle +P loads, they are not fun to shoot in them and if they go out of time they are alot tougher to find parts and service for than the beefier Smith K-frame.

The PP is an elegant gun, with a silky factory trigger and gorgeous blueing from the factory, but the Smith is the clear choice for me for any serious SD or even range use.

If you want a stronger, more ergonomic, yet (relatively) inexpensive Colt revolver look for an Official Police, Army Special, or Trooper/Lawman.

 

[Walkalong]

They tend to whack my knuckles,

Same for me with the Police Positive. I much prefer the larger framed Official Police.

Sold the Police Positive .38 S&W.


The Official Police in .38-200 is a keeper.

 

[WestKentucky]

Same for me with the Police Positive. I much prefer the larger framed Official Police.

Sold the Police Positive .38 S&W.
View attachment 869011

The Official Police in .38-200 is a keeper.
View attachment 869012

The visible difference is the lanyard ring. As a S&W guy I don’t SEE anything else.

 

[BSA1]

I own a Colt Police Positive Special (38 Special) and a S&W Model 10-6 both with 4” barrels.

My P.P.S. is a 3rd Generation Model. While the cylinder is the same size as the Model 10 (both use the same size speed loader) the frame is smaller and it is lighter weight. The grip frame is also smaller. IMO it is not as robust as the Model 10 and I will shoot +P loads sparingly in it. Despite that limitation I enjoy shooting it. It does fill the role as a no-frills home defense gun well especially for someone with small hands or does not want a lot of weight.

 

[Gordon]

65-2 are very robust and durable. I would not get rid of it. You would be getting the short end of that trade.

 

[Huntolive]

Do you think I'd be getting the worst end of the trade even with the $200 cash he's adding and three boxes of 38 Smith & Wesson ammo?
The gun looks to be in very nice condition nice bluing and very clean.

Someone said the 65 - 2 was very robust and durable but I don't think that's true with 357 ammo because can't this gun like the model 19 have failures of the forcing cone?
Other than that I do like a 65-2 that I have is it has a silky smooth trigger and it's in nice clean condition but I have very little use for a 357 that's limited to 38 Special.

What really is the difference between 38 special and 38 Smith & Wesson?

 

[Walkalong]

What really is the difference between 38 special and 38 Smith & Wesson?

.38 Spl is cheap and can be bought anywhere. Not so much with .38 S&W.

A .38 S&W case on the left to show the bullet seated in the .38 Spl case on the right.

A berrys 148 Gr DEWC and an X-Treme 158 Gr SWC in .38 S&W.

You have a great gun that will shoot .38 Spls forever, or a reasonable amount of .357s,
especially if you limit it to 158 Gr ammo that is much less stressful on the forcing cone etc.

The Colt Police Positive is a cool little gun in a cool old caliber that is much cheaper to
shoot if you reload. It is smaller than the M-65 and for me beat up my knuckles, so even
though I am a fan of .38 S&W, I sold it. Love my Official Police in .38-200 (Same thing)
Love my S&W Victory model in .38 S&W as well. Lots of fun, but would be a good deal
more expensive to shoot if I had to buy ammo.

 

[Trashyshoots]

I really dont have anything to add that hasnt been said, but I have a 64 police positive that was modded for bullseye shooting in the 80s. It is the smoothest, and best revolver trigger in double action or single action I've EVER come across.

 

[Speedo66]

You can buy a police turn in Model 65 from AIM Surplus for $400 currently. So for the $200 you'll get plus maybe $250 out of pocket, including shipping and FFL fees, you could have the Colt and a S&W M65.

So the question is is the Colt something you're interested in, and is it worth $250 to you?

 

[AZAndy]

.38S&W is an anemic and outdated cartridge that you may have some trouble finding unless you reload them. (I do, because I'm a weirdo.) Were it my decision, I'd keep the 65, but if you want the Colt for historical interests, then go for it. If you want to be able to defend yourself with a revolver, the 65 is a better bet.

 

[Gordon]

I stand by the model 65 ruggedness. #1 the early K fram problems had been dealt with by series 2 ,
#2 the stainless material is more erosion resistant than the earlier carbon steel, that why all the good condition Police turn ins .
#3 as mentioned the 130 grain up .357 major factory ammo (or equivalent loads) are not as erosive to the forcing cone as say 110 Supervel .357 that gave that problem in the 70s . , and the cracking is also overplayed IMHO.
#4 there are many S&W mechanics around, even the factory will fix that one. Some things you can fix yourself with the abundant parts. The Colt there are few parts and far fewer still qualified mechanics and the timing and fitting far more difficult.
Don't get me wrong ; I love older Police Positives, and I love and use the .38S&W , BUT; I know both of them are antiques versus an all ways reliable .357 that can be fed state of the art .38 +P defensive ammo forever or use .357 powerhouses to even take down a deer or bear if necessary . Just mty opinion . The police turn ins for $400+ dollars are crap shoots as a lot have had the crap shot out of them.

 

[Lucky Derby]

The visible difference is the lanyard ring. As a S&W guy I don’t SEE anything else.

It's the size. The Police Positive is only slightly larger than the J Frame (M36, 60 etc.). The Official Police is roughly the size of the L Frame (581, 686 etc.).

 

[Walkalong]

The visible difference is the lanyard ring. As a S&W guy I don’t SEE anything else.

My pics make them look similar in size, but trust me, the Official Police is significantly larger.

It's the size. The Police Positive is only slightly larger than the J Frame (M36, 60 etc.). The Official Police is roughly the size of the L Frame (581, 686 etc.).

A pretty good analogy.

 

[792mauser]

Had a 65-4. Shot the snot outta her. Loaded lots of 38 screamers and 357's.

They're not as fragile as the internet says they are.
I don't remember what I traded her for years ago. But I was sad to see her go.

 

[Remy1858]

Keep the 65. Corrosion resistant finish and shoots the magnum. Neat guns.

 

[Slamfire]

This is a Colt Police Positive in 38 Special.



While it has a smooth action, the period sights are thin and indistinct. And, it was from the get go, designed to be a lightweight, carry much revolver. I would never ever shoot anything but standard pressure loads in a pistol from this period, and I don't recall if this has a heat treated cylinder. Some of these older revolvers don't have heat treated cylinders or frames.

The Colt Police Positive with a two inch barrel became a Detective Special.



Now this was a great concealable pistol, and it was made in 38S&W and 38 Special. I had opportunities to buy Colts in 38 S&W and I never did. I consider the round to be anemic and back in the day, the 38 Special was as common as the 9mm is now, so it made sense to buy a revolver in 38 Special. I think that logic still applies, I am not interested in the 38 S&W even today. And I don't think you would be getting a good deal trading your M65 and cash for one of these things. Now if the seller wants $200 for his Police Positive, and no boot, that might be something different. Just if you wanted one.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks guys, the guy who suggested the trade would be giving Me the $200 along with 3 boxes of 38 Smith and Wesson and his 1928 police positive

 

[bannockburn]

Huntolive

Got to agree with everyone else who says keep the Model 65 and buy the Police Positive outright if it truly interests you enough.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

In strictly dollar terms, the ammo is worth $100, and the Colt somewhere between 250-450 depending on barrel length, mechanical condition, and if it has original grips or has been refinished.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Still another vote that says keep the Smith & Wesson. It's not quite as fragile as the internet wants you to think, though having had a K-frame .357 in the past, I vastly prefer the L or N-frame (or a *gasp!* Ruger GP-100) for anything looking like extensive use of .357 Magnum ammo.

Now, the old Colt Police Positive and Police Positive Special are just neat guns. As has been mentioned, they're distinctly petite in the hand. You have to hold one to truly understand. They make a S&W K-frame feel like a boat anchor in comparison. I'm now on the lookout for a decent 4" PP or PPS to cross my path, preferably of the 1920s vintage to go with my 1928 Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless. However, you must absolutely be careful of the mechanical condition of the old Colts. If they pass a S&W function check, they are in desperate need of a gunsmith.

At the risk of spreading bad info (and getting burned as a heretic), the failing of the old Colt V-spring action guns is the delicate nature of the lockwork. As smoothly polished and fitted as they are, proper function depends on some small parts which take a beating in recoil. That famous, vaunted "bank vault" lockup Colt was known for, is due to the hand pushing AND HOLDING the cylinder into alignment when the hammer falls and ignition begins. It's a relatively small part that is responsible for that job, and over time it just wears, to the point that it will eventually fail to force the cylinder into lockup in time. Add to that that old Colt parts and gunsmiths capable of working on the Colt actions are not particularly common, and you can see why S&W won the double-action revolver war. Fixing an out of time old Colt is not a job I'd trust to just any local gunsmith. However I wouldn't think twice about having the same local gun plumber fix a S&W.

(This issue with the Colt lockwork applies to all of the older v-spring guns, P.P., P.P.S., Detective Specials, Cobras, Diamondbacks, Pythons, etc. It doesn't apply to any of the "modern" actions.)

Having said all of that, what does the seller want for his Colt and ammo? If the price is reasonable and it checks out mechanically, it could be fun just to have. Me, personally, that would be a gun I'd only shoot a little anyway, so price and availability of .38 S&W ammo wouldn't be a deal breaker at all.