Commerce clause

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Gifted

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We've heard of Wickard v. Filburn, but I have an epiphany in my American Politics class. The textbook mentioned a case by the name of Gibbons v. Ogden in 1824. Curious, I went ahead and checked out a book summarizing "leading cases on the Constitution" to quote the title. This was originally so that I could look at some of the cases, to reference for a possible amendment defining interstate commerce to limit power under the clause. I'm still thinking about that, I might go with another thread to discuss it.

Anyway, the book listed dozens of cases relating to the commerce clause, and it seems that things have gone back and forth several times in history. I found this interesting, and it's not something I've heard about here. I'll be listing case and year, my summing up of the summary in the book of some of the cases listed. I've yet to look up actual court documents, but I was interested in seeing what people here, to include those that have probably done more study of the issue think of the history of the issue.

Gibbons v. Odgen 1824-- NY state can't grant a monoply on water navigation because interstate commerce also travels on those waters. Since granting said monoply would limit who could move interstate commerce within the state, it is above the level of the state to regulate.

Cooley v. The Board of Wardens of the Port of Philadelphia 1851-- Congress have the right to regulate port pilots, but has indicated that states will regulate. This is because the states are better situated to make regulations suiting the different conditions in their ports.

The Daniel Ball 1871-- Since some goods on the ship were from out of state(Michigan) and others were headed out of state, the ship is regulated even though it never leaves the state.

U.S. v. E.C. Knight Co. 1895-- The sugar made by the companies forming a monopoly isn't interstate commerce until it travels in interstate commerce. The law doesn't attempt to regulate commerce, and the gov didn't prove that the monopoly was trying to do so.

Rhodes v. Iowa 1898-- interstate travel does not end until the commerce reaches it's ultimate conclusion. Thus, state law cannot apply until then. A box sitting in a warehouse cannot be searched for liquior, even of the state forbids transport of liquor, becuase it hasn't finished it's journey.

Champion v. Ames 1903-- A law by Congress to prohibit transportation of lottery tickets across state lines is consitutional, since it doesn't affect intrastate movement.

Houston, E&W Texas Ry. Co v. United States 1914-- The state must set it's R.R. rates the same as in other states, since that would give in state people an unfair advantage over out of state people. The "Shreveport Rule" is adopted, which ultimately makes for the unlimited power of the commerce clause.

Carter v. Carter Coal 1936-- Mining coal isn't interstate commerce, since all the activities with labor and such are local issues. Federal power is after the commodity comes to rest after interstate transportation. This was reversed later.

South Carolina State Highway Dept. v. Barnwell Bros. 1938-- Limits on size and weight of trucks does not violate the commerce clause since safety on highways is a state matter. It also does not discriminate between interstate and intrastate commerce.
Wickard v. Filburn 1942-- Growing your own wheat competes with commercial wheat that is in interstate commerce, and so affects interstate commerce enough to be regulated. Most quoted interstate commerce case.

Southern Pacific v. Arizona 1945-- Limiting the lenth of trains in the state produced a burden on interstate commerce beyond dubious claims of safety. Railroads are a different jurisdiction than highways, and are under federal control.

If anyone thinks there's one I should have listed, let me know and I will. The book also cuts off with "Heart of Atlanta Hotel v. U.S.", in 1964. If there's one past that that should be mentioned, let me know. It's gotten me interested in looking at ways to invalidate commerce clause regulation of firearms that are slightly different than most approaches I've seen.

Source is Summaries of Leading Cases on the Constitution 12th Edition, by Paul C. Bartholomew and Joseph H. Menez. Copyright is 1983.
 
For the commerce clause, the only man on the Supreme Court I think we can count on is Clarence Thomas. He sums up the history of the commerce clause in about a sentence:

“[A]n inexorable expansion from 'commerce,' to 'commercial' and 'economic' activity, and finally to all 'production, distribution, and consumption' of goods or services. . . .”

Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1, 57 (2005) (Thomas, J., dissenting) (citations omitted).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZD1.html

I think he wins the argument with what might as well be the first sentence of the dissent: "Respondents’ local cultivation and consumption of marijuana is not 'Commerce … among the several States.' U.S. Const., Art. I, §8, cl. 3." He goes on to say:

[T]he Commerce Clause empowers Congress to regulate the buying and selling of goods and services trafficked across state lines. The Clause’s text, structure, and history all indicate that, at the time of the founding, the term ‘commerce’ consisted of selling, buying, and bartering, as well as transporting for these purposes. Commerce, or trade, stood in contrast to productive activities like manufacturing and agriculture.
 
I agree. Reading through the Constitution is proving interesting. So much has been twisted around that I think the only way to fix it(without going to arms) would be to amend the Constitution. Question is, can we get 38 states on board with that. Here's what I have so far:

An amendment to define interstate and intrastate commerce.
1. interstate commerce shall be defined as the following:
a.Any material, person, cargo, etc. that shall be taken from a point in one state and delivered to a point in another state.
b. Transportation of U.S. currency across state lines

2. Intrastate commerce shall be defined as the following:
a.any material, person, cargo, etc. taken from one point in a state, and delivered to a point within the same state, without crossing state lines.
b. Transportation of U.S. currency that does not cross state lines.

3. Congress shall make no law prohibiting interstate or intrastate commerce in any product or service. They shall not levy any tax which could be considered an undue burden on said commerce.
a. Congress shall be allowed, through legislation, to regulate movement of items that could cause irreparable harm to prevent such harm. This shall not be construed to allow prohibition of such movement, only to define appropriate methods of storage and transportation.
b. States and municipalities shall not prohibit interstate commerce provided the origin point and destination point are not in the jurisdiction of the government, regardless of the form of commerce, or the form of transportation used.

It needs work on the legalese, and I'm sure I have some screwed up definitions. Ideally this wouldn't just kill the gun control laws, but also some other messed up stuff, like asset forfeiture. It needs a lot of work though, and then we need 38 states that will ratify it.
 
I think a key distinction is between "interstate" commerce of interstate goods... like, for example, interstate commerce is shipping a pistol from a factory in the State of A to a distributor in the State of B, or from a distributor in the State of B to a retailer in the State of C.

As opposed to intrastate commerce, the selling of the same pistol by the retailer in the State of C to a citizen of the State of C.

Oh, you asked for commerce clause cases: Lopez and Morrison are the only two post-New Deal cases besides Raich that I can think of at the moment.
 
1. interstate commerce shall be defined as the following:
a.Any material, person, cargo, etc. that shall be taken from a point in one state and delivered to a point in another state.

(Emphasis added.)

Do you really, really want to include people in that definition????? :what:
 
Gifted and Bouis; re friends of the true Commerce Clause

I fully agree that Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 has been abused, beaten, scratched and clawed nearly to death by various SCOTUS appeals.

While Wickard vs Filburn is probably the most egregious and insane stretch ever, your other cites are valuable to demonstrate this misapplication.

Bouis; as to "friends" of the proper interpretation, I believe tht John Roberts may prove to be one of the few. Witness his dissenting opinion in Rancho Viejo vs. Norton. Although a District Court decision and not full SCOTUS, his "hapless toad" remarks are classic. A toad who, for reasons of his own, chooses to live out his life entirely within the state of California.

Seems Roberts has at least a little grasp of the difference between interstate commerce and totally intrastate regulation. Of course, he was soundly berated by those who saw his dissent as being against the "endangered species act". They just didn't get it.

Gifted; anything we can do to reverse this inanity is less than enough.

ElZorro

EDITED POSTSCRIPT: Yes, I meant to type "inanity", not "insanity".
 
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This Is As Bogus A Ruling As They Ever Get Bogus

Wickard v. Filburn 1942-- Growing your own wheat competes with commercial wheat that is in interstate commerce, and so affects interstate commerce enough to be regulated. Most quoted interstate commerce case.

The wheat grown local in this case did not get sold outside the state, and in fact was never put on the market to compete IN the state. Therefore, it never competed with any wheat market. This is the court saying I can't build my own chair. I've built my bed, nightstands, my lounging-TV-watching chair, my computer desk, gun-cleaning stand, the wife's make-up chair, two ottomans, a sleigh bench, and various work benches.

I do my own taxes, too. Doesn't that compete with H&R Block and other nationwide businesses engaged across state lines? I've driven all across the country, too. Doesn't that compete with buss lines, trains, and airlines? No one has dragged me into court to pay any fees or fines for that!

Here's the kicker: I've grown my own tomatoes! And Peas! And Peppers!

I guess I'm doomed! This life of crime needs to be brought to a screeching halt! Yes, before I buy that acreage, build a cabin, and harvest wood to heat my cabin and harness the Oklahoma wind for electricity.

Gets ridiculous, doesn't it.

Woody

"The power of those in government to use common sense shall not be infringed. It is imperative, however, to elect people to those positions of power who possess common sense. Remember that at the next election." B.E.Wood
 
Geeetings, Woody. I thought that Commerce Clause

title would bring you running.

And Gifted; another more recent SCOTUS decision you might be interested in:

The 1990 case United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, where SCOTUS' ruling was very much in favor of the "individual rights" meaning of the 2A.

ElZorro

WHOOOPS! I stand corrected (by myself): The cited 1990 case was in the District Court of D.C., not SCOTUS. My bad.

ElZorro
 
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The 1990 case United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, where SCOTUS' ruling was very much in favor of the "individual rights" meaning of the 2A.
I just looked it up. I didn't find anything in the case about the second amendment. The case was whether or not the fourth applied to a search of a foreign national's property in a foreign country.
 
US v. Verdugo-Urquidez

The significance of this case is the SCOTUS interpretation of the meaning of "the people" as used in the text of the constitution. The court held that "the people" refers to citizens of the United States. Therefore, Verdugo-Urquidez, a foreign national in a foreign territory had no Fourth Amendment protection. The Second Amendment relevance is that it also refers to "the people" in its text. If the 4th Amendment is an individual right which protects American citizens, then the Second Amendment would likewise. ;) Hence, the ludicrous nature of the "collective right" positions taken by gun-grabbers.:barf:

Perhaps this may clarify ElZorro's comments.
 
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