Confused about 1862 colt police

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Pancho

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Trying to compare the 1862 colt police 36 cal. guns offered by Pietta and Uberti. The Uberti shown in Taylor looks like a scaled down version of the 1860 army. The Pietta shown in the Cableas cat.looks like a full size 1860 colt with the barrel cut down to 5". Both are 36 cal. Taylor describes the uberti as a five shot. Cabelas doesn't say. What do we know about these pistols. I'm in the market.
 
The picture of the Cabela's "1862 Army Police" shows a six-shooter and looks to me like an 1861 Navy sawn off and with modern cylinder flutes. Not a faithful reproduction of any Colt I have seen or heard of. Maybe Pietta did not want to tool up for another frame size and five hole cylinder.
But I am not a Colt expert and have not seen one of everything.

The Taylor looks closer to the real Colt.
 
I think I might have answered my own question. I found on Auctionarms an original 1862 police and it is just like the uberti. I guess the pietta version is just something they dreamed up. Gee thanks pietta I don't need anymore confusion in my life. I still would like to hear from anyone having and using the uberti version.
 
Here's my Uberti 1862 Colt Pocket Police. It's .36 cal with a 5 shot fluted cylinder and a 5 1/2" barrel. It fits my hand ok, but is a bit small in the grips. Not the best Colt in that department for my personal specs. It shoots very nicely, a little high at 25 yards but not nearly as much as the large frame Colts. One problem is that it is significantly worse at shedding spent caps than the large frame Colts due to smaller clearances between the cylinder and the recoil shield, plus there is no relief in the shield to help that process like on the large frames.

I shoot 15 gr real black powder under a .36 cal lubed felt wad and a .375 round ball. I have no chrono data.

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Mykeal, I read somewhere that the oldtimers would raise the muzzle of the pistol up while cocking to help the firearm shed the spent cap. Do you think that would help?

It helps quite a bit with the large frame guns, although it takes a bit of practice to get it right. It is less useful with the small frames - the issue is that they have less clearance between the frame and the cylinder/nipple, so the caps jam between them rather than falling away, regardless of how the gun is held. There is a frame modification one can employ if one is handy with a Dremel; I've not done it on mine. I just keep my pocket knife handy and open...
 
The Uberti version is the correct historical version.
The Pietta version is nice (I have a regular version and the "snubby" version and both are nice guns) but it is not an actual repro of anything that actually came out of Colt's factory.
My single gripe about the Pietta version is the flutes in the cylinder need to be longer to be more aesthetic. This gun is actually an 1861 Navy with a bobbed barrel and a non-engraved fluted cylinder.
 
I am handy with a Dremel but could use more information on the fix. I know how irritating it is to have a pistol jam due to spent caps.
Having small hands the smaller frame fits very well but if I have to put up with more jamming due to small frame size I might consider the Sheriff's model that looks like a large framed 44 with a cut down barrel
 
To make the 1860 Army .44, the Navy frame was cut down in front and the cylinder rebated to accept the bigger caliber. The same thing was done with the 1862 Police and the 1862 Pocket Navy except that this time it was a .31 frame (the 1849 Pocket Model) cut down and then used with a rebated cylinder to increase caliber to .36. The 1862 Police also has flutings on the cylinders. Both are five-shot; the Police has a creeping rammer like the 1860 Army, the Pocket Navy has the 1851 Navy type rammer.

So if a repro "1862 Police" is on an 1861 Navy frame, it is on the wrong frame.

Jim
 
Two ways to 'Dremel' out the cap relief channel:

1) if you have a large frame Colt revolver (Dragoon, Walker, 1851 Navy) look at the recoil shield - there is a channel from the hammer slot to the nipple cap relief on the right side in the shield. This channel gives the cap and/or cap fragments room to fall free from the nipple when the hammer is pulled back to cock the gun for the next shot. If the shooter helps the channel do it's job by rotating the gun to the right and up the channel is quite effective.


2) if you don't have a large frame Colt for an example, go to, for instance, Amazon.com and do a search for " Percussion Pistols And Revolvers: History, Performance and Practical Use" by Michael Cumpston and Johnny Bates. It has a nice description of the channel.

I need to say that I have not made the modification to my 1862 Pocket Police. The cap jamming is an annoyance but I don't feel I have the skills to make the modification without causing damage to the frame, so I just put up with it. I also take other guns to the range to use when the frustration builds up.
 
one plus of the pietta is '51 navy conversions work.
 

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funny guns out there

I once ordered a Baby Dragoon, which is a .31 caliber 5-shot. I got a .31 caliber 6-shot. I won't mention the company, but they did take the gun back and gave me a refund, which was nice of them.

The Cabela's police model is a shortened 1861 Navy. Not true to the original Colt Police, which was a .36 on a .31-size frame, and a 5-shot. The Uberti model that was pictured above is the real thing when it comes to replicas.

I have the 6-1/2 barrel model of the same gun shown. I like it. There isn't anything not to like on the gun. Shoots great. Loads easy, don't have stuck caps (use a #10 cap) and hits right on where aimed, not high or low, left or right. Uberti is the only way I get black powder pistols now. :p

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
My Uberti Colt Police (pictured above) has some very strange nipples, which may well be the root cause of the cap jamming problem. The nipples have a major thread diameter of 0.200" and 28 threads/inch, which matches no thread spec I've ever heard of. I've measured all 6 nipples and they are all the same.

The gun is supposed to have nipples with the Uberti standard of 12x28 thread (that's 0.216" by 28 tpi or 5.5mm by 0.9 mm thread pitch). I've tried to thread several 12x28 nipples and bolts into each of the holes in the cylinder and they will not start - they are clearly too large in diameter.

The gun has a date stamp of BI for 1997. I bought it at an auction from an estate; it was unfired.

The nipples appear to take No. 10 caps without pinching, but I'm beginning to think that they may be a little smaller, like the thread, and that's what's allowing them to easily fall away after firing.

I'd appreciate it if anyone else who has this Uberti gun would check the nipple threads and let me know if they have the 12x28 or 0.200x28 threads.
 
Original and Replicas

The New Pocket Models


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Original Pocket Police
In late 1861, Colt introduced not only the modern version of the .36 Navy with all the features of the 1860 Army Revolvers but also extended the line of pocket revolvers. The Pocket Navy or, Pocket Revolver of Navy Caliber, was a scaled-down, five-shot version of the 1851, while the Pocket Police revolvers were of the same size utilizing the modern features including the ratcheted loading lever, cylinder flutes and round barrel. Both mirrored the Army and Navy by rebating the frame and reducing the rear of the cylinder to allow a .36-caliber arm on the .31 Pocket Model frame. William Clark Quantrill, the Confederate raider, reportedly favored this model. These revolvers would remain in production until 1873 and reach production numbers of about 19,000 of the old Navy pattern and in the high 20,000 range of the modern type. Some of the later design remained in the factory and became cartridge revolvers in the early 1870s.
Our examples include an original Colt and a couple of replicas. All are fine shooters.

.36 Uberti Pocket 80 gr. Ball- .375&.380" Velocity fps Spread (5)
15 Grains Goex FFFg 774 60
15 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 774 23
15 Gr/Vol. H777 596 290
.36 Pocket Navy
15.8 Goex FFFg 690 13
15 Grains Swiss 787 58

Recorded velocities with the standard 15-grain charge resemble the performance of the .32 Smith and Wesson cartridge that began to appear in pocket revolvers in the late 1870s. Pyrodex and Goex FFFg were virtually identical while the H 777 turned in the same wildly erratic performance observed in compressed full loads in other handguns.
The original Colt Pocket Police is in very good condition with the exception of a pitted bore. There is evidence of some mishandling in that the safety pins are flattened off and there are some hammer strike marks on the rear of the cylinder on either side of the nipples. It has some remaining blue and nickel plate left on the front portion of the grip frame. We charged it up with .380 balls, 15 grains of Goex FFFg and Remington number ten caps. The loading, handling, and shooting sensations were indistinguishable from the Uberti replicas. Number ten Remington caps were a perfect fit, and the seating pressure for the .380-inch balls was the same as with a Uberti. Cycling was very smooth and as problem-free as the replica pocket models we have modified for reliability with burst caps. Cumpston fired five “duelist” from twenty-five yards and registered a group about ten inches above point of aim and a bit to the right. The five-shot cluster measured about five inches, which is right in line with the expected off-hand accuracy with the replicas.
New Pocket Police Model revolvers and the full line of spare parts are available from Uberti USA and Cimarron Arms. They are very fine shooters once one has grown accustomed to the small grips. A five-inch off-hand group at twenty-five yards is not unusual and a properly sighted Pocket Police or Navy would make a decent small-game revolver.

Colt Pocket Navy
The Pocket Navy has the same rebated frame and cylinder as the Pocket Police, the New Navy and the 1860 Army. Built on the 31 Pocket revolver frame, it uses the same loading lever assembly as the earlier and still popular so-called 1849 revolvers. The inclusion of the Pocket Navy may well stem from Colt’s well-known penchant for economy and making efficient use of all available parts. The unfluted cylinder may be a bow toward the nostalgic sensibilities of ’51 Navy owners. Imaginative collectors early dubbed this revolver “The New Pocket Navy of 1853,” but it was clearly a product of the Civil War period.
Our Uberti version, made in 2004, had a heavier trigger and rougher action than most of the larger Uberti replicas made in the same period. Bates addressed the trigger pull by laying a ridge of epoxy on the front of the hammer under the full-cock notch. In this way, he was able to reduce creep and apparent trigger pull without interfering with surface hardening of the metal. The action became smoother as we used the revolver and displayed reliable function when we switched from CCI number 11 to the Remington number 10 caps that fit this revolver better. The 690 foot-per-second velocity with the .375-inch ball over 15.8 grains of Goex FFFg was a bit lower than seen with the Pocket Police revolvers with a smaller charge. Such variations among similar and even identical arms are common. The thirteen feet-per-second spread over five rounds is typical of expected consistency with black powder.
The circa five-inch barrel of the Uberti Pocket Navy provided fine balance and contributed to very satisfactory off-hand shooting at paper targets at various distances. Point of impact was more than a foot over the sights at sixty feet and twenty-five yards. Bates cut a dovetail in the barrel and installed a taller blade sight. He then regulated the revolver to hit to the sights at the above distances. The modified revolver makes a fine kit gun for field shooting and small-game hunting at close range.
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Sure. The new and tight Uberti pocket models are more prone to cap jamming than the larger ones. I believe the sticky about disassembly of colt type revolvers has an illustration of opening up various clearances for good function. The original police model above functioned smoothly and so will a modified uberti.
 
Mec's book is worth getting, Pancho. He's too much of an 'aw, shucks' kind of guy to plug it himself, so I will.

http://www.amazon.com/Percussion-Pistols-Revolvers-Performance-Practical/dp/0595357962/ref=s

Page 94 shows areas to relieve on a pocket size frame which help in handling fired caps. I had fits with my Uberti pocket navy when it was new. I made mec's modifications, plus I installed Ampco nipples and still had occasional cap jams. Finally I increased the hammer spring tension and the problem seems to have been corrected. The hammer now stays down on the cap after igniting it, holding it in place on the nipple until you cock for the next shot. The jams I had been having were caused by the hammer blowing back slightly at ignition which allowed the fired cap to back off of the nipple following the hammer face to the rear. They then fell down in the hammer cut and acted as a hammer block if not removed before trying to shoot again.

Steve
 
Could you provide us with more details and info on your conversion Colt
Sorry it took so long I don't get on BP forum often.It's the pietta 1862 police version (6 shot) that Cabelas sells with a kirst konverter.they are actually a 38 long colt chamber but you can use 38 specials with hollow base wadcutters.accuracy is ok for CAS shooting.R&D also makes a conversion that will work (the one for '51 navys fits '61 navys and pietta '62 police) and they will sleeve the barrel then you can use plain base bullets.only problem is by the time you do that you can buy a R-M conversion or open top for less.
 
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