Could Pistol Ammo be priced like Shotgun Shells?

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bushmaster1313

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25 shotgun shells, with 1 ounce of lead each, sell retail for $5.00 a box

50 rounds of pistol ammo is $20.00 and up at the chain stores where I live.

Could pistol ammo be made with a lot less powder, plastic cases and only a 1/4 ounce of lead and be priced even cheaper than shotgun shells?
 
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This question really struck me as a "Well...why not?"

http://www.matrixgrp.net/mamco/mamco.html


Guess also in the 80's they tried something similar with nylon cases instead of brass. Needed a special bullet and all kinds of stuff to make it not cost efficient.

My best guess is the pressure in most pistols and rifles is too much for plastic hulls.
 
The Base of Shotgun Shells has long been Brass, even if the rest of the Case was Paper or Plastic.


There is no need for a Shotgun Cartridge to securely grip a solid Bullet as there is in say, Ammunition/Cartridges for Autoloading Pistols.


For Revolvers, probably a similar to Shotgun type case could work fine, with the Cartridge Sides - if thin and strong enough - crimped over the front of the Bullet.


Possibly it is the thin-and-strong-enough aspect which has been the deterrent.
 
Could pistol ammo be made with a lot less powder, plastic cases and only a 1/4 ounce of lead and be priced even cheaper than shotgun shells?
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It's possible, but not cost efficient. The difference is pressure. The average 12ga shell operates about 10,000 - 11,000 psi, so plastic hulls can be used for shotguns since they are able to withstand that pressure. A 9mm, even though it is small, operates at about 30,000 psi. The brass case is the most important part of a safe cartridge since it forms a seal at the chamber and forces the pressure out the barrel and not in the direction of the shooter. Some companies make steel cased ammo, which is cheaper to produce, but needs a coating of some sort to ensure sealing and extraction of the fired case.
The other problem is downloading (reducing the powder) to the extent that a plastic case could contain the pressure. As reloaders know, this is possible to a point with brass cases. As the velocity of the cartridge decreases, there is an increasing chance that you will get a bullet stuck in the barrel. Someone may correct me if I'm off, but I thought the threshhold for this was around 650 fps, depending on the bullet. This is not an issue with shotgun shells since they are not rifled.
 
I think the amount of "federal" tax built into the selling price of ammo may affect that selling price more than the components.

Remember the government(s) make way more $$$ on gasoline than those evil oil companies, supposibly to repair/maintain roads.
 
There is a 11% excise tax on all sporting arms and ammo. This was set forth and voted on by sportman. The Pittman/Robertsan act is this tax. However the feds can't touch it the funds are used for wildlife conservtion and education. This excise tax is what pays farmers to let hunters use their land for walk-in hunting. This tax also fund hunter education. This is about the only tax i pay that i feel no regret in paying.
 
Sure dedicated for whatever....like the gas tax pays for roads and the lottery pays for education.
Sounds noble, but I don't know any farmers receiving anything from the government to let hunters use their land.
Do you?
Yes, and next year the politician will campaign on that "lock box" for Social Security...again.
Sorry, I'm not drinking that kool aid.
YMMV
 
http://www.fws.gov/southeast/federalaid/pittmanrobertson.html
Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act of 1937
In 1937, hunters successfully lobbied Congress to pass the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act, which placed an 11% tax on all hunting equipment. This self-imposed tax now generates over $700 million each year and is used exclusively to establish, restore and protect wildlife habitats.[30] It is named for Nevada Senator Key Pittman and Virginia Congressman Absalom Willis Robertson
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We are getting off of subject here but. When sportsman say that do more for wildlife conservation than peta or any other anti group does by far. We mean it. Same goes for fishing gear under a seperate fund. It pisses the wonderful all powerful wizard of obama off that he can't use the money for anything else. Beside if farmers didn't get monies for use of their land why in the heck would they just donate it to walk in hunting or what was the CRP program. Don't have to drink my kool-aide but you should be informed when you open your mouth.
 
Yes, and those farmers are rewarded with the 55% estate tax back next year, from our government.
Quoting laws, facts and figures you have googled doesn't make you any more informed than anyone else.
I have given/done more than most to restore and protect wildlife, not just by paying taxes either.
Nothing is more efficient than donating your time and money.
I don't need the government spending my money in the name of preserving something, while I watch it being destroyed.
Just look at the condition of our National Parks, or the 7 billion the Post Office lost just this year.
Oh wait, sorry on the post office, that was just "underfunding".
That's the way I see it.
Oh, and I'm typing here, not opening my mouth.
This is my last response, no need to google and paste anymore "facts".
If you must, google the farmers who get my taxes, I would enjoy seeing that list.
 
Since I am one of the farmers that get your taxes I thank you. I have also been a hunter education instructor for the past 9 years. I have worked with wildlife and parks for the past 8 years. My family has received monies to keep part of our land from being used for crops. Your right I am completly mistaken. The state just likes the looks of overgrown feilds, buck brush, and pasture pines. I think it enhances the looks of the state therefore they pay us to keep it.

Now back to the original question. One of the main factors limiting the use of caseless ammo is that it is very heat sensative. Also as stated before plastic just can't hold up to centerfire rifle pressures.
 
Well, much of the current cost of pistol ammo isn't due to material costs (per se), but more of just supply and demand. Lots of demand, but it seems no one is supplying anymore.
 
Well, much of the current cost of pistol ammo isn't due to material costs (per se), but more of just supply and demand. Lots of demand, but it seems no one is supplying anymore.
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Uh, what part of the country are you in? LOL. Ammo is everywhere and has been for over a year now. It has also come way back down in price.

www.jgsales.com
www.aimsurplus.com
www.georgia-arms.com

hell

www.cabelas.com
www.midwayusa.com
www.bassproshops.com

i can list another 20 sites or so if you need proof that ammo is back, has been back, and has returned to "normal" in price.
 
It's volume sales. One HELL of a lot more shotgun shells are sold to bird hunters and clays shooters every year than are .40 Smith for any purpose. Now, compare buckshot to you pistol ammo for a more fair comparison. Buckshot at about 4 bucks for 5 rounds. 25 rounds at that rate is 10 bucks, so 50 rounds is 20 bucks which is up there with most pistol ammo. But, then, I can still get 9x19 for 12 bucks.

Volume sales. Walk in to walmart this time of year, dove season in south Texas, and look at the cases of 7.5 shot "promotional loads" stacked up for sale.
 
I don't know any farmers receiving anything from the government to let hunters use their land.
Do you?
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Yes, I know many farmers and ranchers who are paid by the State of South Dakota for walk-in hunting access. The walk In area program is widely popular among both landowners and hunters. We actually have a chunk of our ranch in the program, as it allows for free hunting access for those hunters willing to park their trucks and actualy walk while hunting, which is something we have no problem with.
 
Davek1977:
Thanks for that info, it's good to know the STATE of South Dakota helps hunters with access to farm land more than likely paid for with license fees.

I'm sure the biggest concern for most farmers is the liability as I know land owners who post their land just for that reason.
These same landowners often give permission to hunt when asked.

Thanks for reading my post and I apoligize to the OP for the thread drift.
 
Birdshot here runs $21/100 rounds in the large value packs at Wal Mart.

Federal 9mm runs $10.47/50 rounds ($20.94/100) at the same Wal Mart.

Both 12 ga. and 9mm are about 20 cents per round...so they already do make pistol ammo that costs the same as shotgun shells. Buckshot and slugs are about $1 per shell, as are 9mm hollowpoints.

You're ignoring the fact that you're comparing jacketed pistol bullets to lead shot in shotgun shells. The jacket and case of the ammunition are very expensive because they contain a lot of copper. Manufacturers could produce steel-cased ammunition with lead bullets for most calibers, but it wouldn't be as likely to sell. Most of the people that own guns don't shoot them that often to warrant buying ammo that cheap, and some ranges don't allow unjacketed bullets.

It has also been my unfortunate experience that companies produce cheaper ammunition but sell it at basically the same price just because they know they can get it. For example, CCI Blazer, in .38 special, with lead round nosed bullets and aluminum cases, sells for $17 at Academy. Cheap Winchester or Remington brass-cased FMJ ammo in the same caliber, at the same store, is the same price, or less than 50 cents more per box. Now, it doesn't take anywhere near as much money to produce the Blazer stuff as it does the brass-cased ammo, so it is not as good a value, but people still buy it.
 
Uh, what part of the country are you in? LOL. Ammo is everywhere and has been for over a year now. It has also come way back down in price.

www.jgsales.com
www.aimsurplus.com
www.georgia-arms.com

hell

www.cabelas.com
www.midwayusa.com
www.bassproshops.com

i can list another 20 sites or so if you need proof that ammo is back, has been back, and has returned to "normal" in price.
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My location is listed to the left to answer your first question.

.45 ACP is impossible to find at my local WMs for over a year now. Federal HST is still impossible to find in .45 ACP, although that has more to do with Federal cracking down on civilian sales. 230 gt. Gold Dots in 50 boxes just barely started coming back now. Quality JHP in 45 is still tough to find in decent quantities at good prices. Prices have not come down since 08. In fact, they continue to go up.

Thank for the links, but I am already aware of all those online outlets. I would also humbly suggest looking at some of the sites and comparing the reality there to the claims contained in your post. I clicked on the Georgia Arms site briefly, and sure enough, they have a note on the landing page that they're still having trouble with .45 ACP. They had that message almost a year ago, which is the last time I visited the GA site.
 
Federal 9mm runs $10.47/50 rounds ($20.94/100) at the same Wal Mart.
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I don't know what Wal-Mart you shop at, but that's sure not the same Wal-Mart that I've been to.
 
Donno, personally I prefer not to pay $1-$2 a round, look at what full load 12ga buck cost, I rather stick to paying only 10-15 cents a round.
 
Federal 9mm runs $10.47/50 rounds ($20.94/100) at the same Wal Mart.


I don't know what Wal-Mart you shop at, but that's sure not the same Wal-Mart that I've been to.
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Every Wal Mart in the state of South Carolina (at least 7 or so I have visited) has Federal ammo at those prices. This is up from $8.97 and then $9.47 a box. They recently started carrying some Russian steel-cased stuff that is $9.47 a box, but it is nowhere near as good as the Federal stuff.

I would not be surprised if prices were different in other areas; I'm just listing what they are here.

I would think that if pistol ammo is more expensive elsewhere, shotgun ammo would be too.
 
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