Cowboy Loads for self Defense

[OlyArmsk16]

Hey, I have a pietta '58 Remmington with a Kirst Konversion to .45LC. ive been to the range a few times and love the way it shoots.
I was wondering how viable the Winchester 250 GR. 45 Colt "Cowboy Loads" are for stopping a threat if i had too. I blew a hole clean through a 2X4 but doubt if that is a good test for adequate stopping power.

Thanks.

 

[gremlin_bros]

well my thought is if it worked aginst game and to stop men in the old west it should still be just as viable today as it was then.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Original Colt 45 (LC) Black powedr loads were 35 grns BP with a 250 grn bullet. I shoot 30 grns in 44 Rem. and I'd sure not want to get hit with it. It is 650 FPS, 248 Grn. Big and slow will get them every time. I can load this bullet in a 44 Special with turned down rim with 35 grn. BP and the little nose is just below the chamber mouth. This is the load I'll use for personal protection. It almost matches the original 45 LC loading.

 

[Low Key]

If you use the BP cylinder, don't count out the old round ball for self defense either. A .454 ball is supposed to be 142gr and with 40gr of powder behind it, it's clocking over 1000fps. Back in the day it was considered an effective fight stopper and put many a man in their grave. Many of the famous cap n ballers we know of, such as Wild Bill Hickok, held onto their cap and ball guns well after the beginning of the cartridge era. They must have had a good reason for doing so. If they didn't do the job, their owners would have switched to something that did.

 

[ArmedBear]

If you use the BP cylinder, don't count out the old round ball for self defense either. A .454 ball is supposed to be 142gr and with 40gr of powder behind it, it's clocking over 1000fps. Back in the day it was considered an effective fight stopper and put many a man in their grave. Many of the famous cap n ballers we know of, such as Wild Bill Hickok, held onto their cap and ball guns well after the beginning of the cartridge era. They must have had a good reason for doing so. If they didn't do the job, their owners would have switched to something that did.

Wild Bill had a pair of .36 caliber 1851 Navies. Killed while holding 8's and Aces, snuck up on and shot in the back of the head, without time to defend himself. Everyone else who'd tried to kill him, and there were a lot, failed, often due to his skill with the Colt Navies.

These guys were killed using cowboy loads, too.

 

[Low Key]

it's hard to defend against the bullet in the back of the head thing. There were several well knowns from the old west that took a bullet in the back or the back of the head simply because the chicken that shot them knew he didn't stand a chance face to face.

But let's also remember Dave Tutt, whom Wild Bill shot through the heart with one of those .36 navies at 75 YARDS! Impressive shot, and pretty good evidence that the old C&B revolver will get the job done.

FWIW, I think the magnum mentality of the present day is a little overrated.

 

[22hipower]

cowboy loads

the original 45 colt load was 40 grains blackpowder and a 250 grain bullet. in a 7.5 in barreled revolver this load will do 950 to 1000fps. the cowboy loads they load now are only around 650 to 700 fps

 

[Old Dragoon]

22highpower,
You are correct, but they(Colt and the cartridge producers) thought it too hot and cut it back to 35 Grns. for general use. Per an article called the forgotten 44's that was in , I believe Guns and Ammo. You can google it and find it..

 

[22hipower]

35 grains blackpowder should give you around 850 fps in a 45 colt . the cowboy loads come close to the 45 schofield load which was 28 gr blackpowder and a 230 gr bullet. which is the load used by the calvary because they used both the colt and smith and wesson revolvers. the 45 colt was too long to fit in the smith cylinder,but the schofield load fit in the colts the schofield loads gives about 700 fps .

 

[Old Dragoon]

Yep and the Smith guys were in a boatload of trouble if they ran out of 45 Schofields. probably one reason they didn't catch on. Waddya think?

 

[22hipower]

the u s army used the shorter cased smith and wesson ammo not the colt ammo the only difference between the ammo was the length of the cases

 

[ArmedBear]

22highpower,
You are correct, but they(Colt and the cartridge producers) thought it too hot and cut it back to 35 Grns. for general use. Per an article called the forgotten 44's that was in , I believe Guns and Ammo. You can google it and find it..

I've read that the Army had the load dropped all the way to 30 grains. I don't know which number is right. But anything up to 40 grains is a viable load in a BP .44 (.451 or .454 ball), though it starts to kick more.

BP kicks more than smokeless powder, although it kicks more slowly. The Army apparently thought that the extra power wasn't worth the recoil and smoke. The Army also shot 7.5" barrels at least until the waning years of the 19th Century, when many beat-up SAA's were refurbished after 20 years on the frontier. They were cut down to 5.5" at the arsenal before refinishing.

 

[OlyArmsk16]

Thanks for the reply's guys. Just out of interest how do you think the 45 colt "Cowboy Load" compares to a modern 9mm round as far as stopping power is concerned. Thanks again.

 

[Imaginos]

Direct Answer to Your Question

Saw this over on Sixgunner.com
http://forums.sixgunner.com/Turd_Shot_With_SW_45_Colt_Cowboy_Load%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25%25A_side_bar_to_TM's_Post/m_36005/tm.htm