Critical mold information

[AJC1]

The 38/357 bullet with two crimp grooves is the Ray Thompson designed Lyman #358156
a 155 gr. SWC with a gas check .
Back in the mid 1960's when I started reloading ... 38 special cases littered the public range floor , free for the sweeping up . 357 Magnum cases were few and far between , Using 38 special brass you could seat the bullet in the lower crimp groove and have about the same case capacity and length of a 357 magnum round to shoot in your 357 magnum revolver. It was prudent to avoid Maximum Loads but mid-range loads worked fine .
For loading 38 special you seated the bullet to the upper crimp groove in 38 special brass .
These worked fine in a S&W model 64 38 Special and a Ruger Blackhawk (three screw) 357 magnum ... those are the only 38 / 357 handguns I own , but no problems chambering the loaded ammo .
That design still is a good bullet for 38 spcl / 357 magnum .
Gary

Avoiding a gas check reduces the cost of a bullet by half. Dam gas checks are 5 cents each. In earlier days I might have jumped as I have looked at that bullet many times. My 180 is a gc design and I won't be buying any more.

 

[derek45]

I have this one, and it fits my 686(dash4) and GP100 7 shot. ( rolled crimped to crimp groove )

LOVE the true KEITH design







compared to your post...

 

[AJC1]

I have this one, and it fits my 686(dash4) and GP100 7 shot. ( rolled crimped to crimp groove )

LOVE the true KEITH design

View attachment 1108563

View attachment 1108564

View attachment 1108565

compared to your post...

If my math is still good that's. 351 with a .310 max clearance. Honestly I never had an issue just rolling into the driving band. I see that most people have way more room so I'm dealing with an issue that's abnormal. Most likely why I haven't seen a thread like this before. I'll not let a crimp grove hold me back....

 

[RKRCPA]

This issue has existed for quite some time. Elmer Keith references Smith & Wesson's with short cylinders in his loading data. He recommended crimping over the driving band in those instances.



In my case, my Ruger Mid Frame Blackhawk in 41 magnum will not accept a 410459 in a magnum case, the bullet protrudes from the front of the cylinder. On my large frame 41 mag it's not a problem.

It's why we handload.

 

[AJC1]

This issue has existed for quite some time. Elmer Keith references Smith & Wesson's with short cylinders in his loading data. He recommended crimping over the driving band in those instances.

View attachment 1108581

In my case, my Ruger Mid Frame Blackhawk in 41 magnum will not accept a 410459 in a magnum case, the bullet protrudes from the front of the cylinder. On my large frame 41 mag it's not a problem.

It's why we handload.

Thank you, I love old references. My favorite is my Lyman 45th but there are hidden nuggets of knowledge that are for the taking if you read everything.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thank you, I love old references. My favorite is my Lyman 45th but there are hidden nuggets of knowledge that are for the taking if you read everything.

“Make it work.”
- Tim Gunn

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

It's why we handload.

Absolutely.

 

[mdi]

Is there a "dead horse" emogee handy? Found one...

 

[dannyd]

Just go shot and enjoy and thanks Mr. Keith.

 

[AJC1]

I think I found the one.... it's not in stock so maybe I'll get this for my birthday. Perfect nose length, brass, and my way to try holliwpount. What am I missing????

 

[Bcwitt]

You could perhaps trim the case until it dose fit.

 

[Cacas ex Fortuna]

It's a 38 bullet not a 357 and exactly the point of this post.

There is NO difference between a 38 special .357 and a .357 mag bullet, same, same.

The term 38 Special came from the diameter of the LOADED round. The case size after loading the pill.

 

[Blue68f100]

There is NO difference between a 38 special .357 and a .357 mag bullet, same, same.

The term 38 Special came from the diameter of the LOADED round. The case size after loading the pill.

Bullet construction is different between the 38 spl and 357 mag. A 38 spl does not create enough velocity for some 357mag bullets to expand. A 357mag cnd cause a bullet to fail on impact when pushed to mag velocities.

The only thing that is the same is the dia. After that it get more specific for application/use.

That said since this is reference to a mold, A harder alloy may be used for 357mag.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

That said since this is reference to a mold, A harder alloy may be used for 357mag.

I think that’s really @AJC1 ’s point in starting this thread: failing to research a mold before buying can lead to some odd problems. Some .357” bullets are too long when seated to their intended depth for a .357Magnum because they’re actually designed for a .38Spl.