Curse of the Short Chambers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TrapperReady

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
2,732
Last night the boys and I were out running a couple errands, stocking up on supplies for a little fishing trip. While at the local sporting goods store, I spied a used Model 12 in very nice condition... for less than what I'd expect to pay for a used 870 Express.

I did a double-take and checked it over quickly. One kinda-big, but tolerable stock ding and a bunged up screw were the only noticeable problems. The bluing is a little worn, but far better than most. In all, a sweet field gun.

So, why the low price? Well, it's a 16ga, made in the mid-20's and has what Dave calls "The Curse of the Short Chamber". I've got a few cases of 2 1/2" 16ga shells ready to go, just sitting in the basement... so after the obligatory 15 minutes or so of paperwork, I was out the door with a big grin and a new (to me) grouse and pheasant gun.

The barrel is marked Full choke and is 26". Aside from being a little lighter, it fits and handles the same as my 12ga M12. Mechanically, everything is in good shape and it is SMOOOOOOOOOTTTTTHHHHHH.

I've seen a number of 2 3/4" chambered 16ga Model 12s recently, and anything in even remotely decent condition has been priced at least double or triple what this one was.

So... forgive me if I consider this curse to be more like a blessing! :D

All I need now is a Model 42. :uhoh: Good thing I saved some money on this one!
 
Congrats!
Aha...it the glass half empty or half full dealie - I see. :)

So are these short shells some you loaded up? Or some old ones?. IIRC Fiocchi will make these up from time to time. Someone else may also.

NO matter...someone is going to have fun!:D

You'll find a 42...and I bet you find one for a fair price.
 
Steve - These are some new shells I bought from Westley Richards last year (to go with a short-chambered A5). I am, of course, saving the hulls so that I can reload them (still hafta keep my eyes open for a beater 16ga MEC).

I've got some that are 1 oz of #6 shot, and some that are 7/8oz of #7 (not #7.5), so I should be good for most any birds I'm likely to encounter. When I get around to reloading them, I'll probably be sticking with 1 oz of #5 for the pheasants and 7/8oz of #7.5 for "others".

Definitely glass half-full for me. I figure that little bit of chamber saved me around $300.

BTW, my wife looked at me a little questioningly when I brought it in... until I handed it to her. She threw it up to her shoulder and grinned. I think it may be HER field gun when we're hunting together. :D
 
Westley Richards - They still do that? :cool: It has been awhile since I heard anyone order from them. I didn't get the memo.

Those loadings are "better than they are supposed to be". I like your choice of reloads as well. To bad finding #7 is so difficult. I need to check the Fiocchi site again , including the reloading components. I think at one time they had hard #7 nickel plated.

Dang womenfolk...taking a man's shooting iron for her own like that...shame , shame. ;)

I think its great she hunts with you. If and when you get a model 42... forget it - you don't have a chance do you? If she doesn't get it that boy you posted a pic of will end up with it. What a grin that boy had.
 
Yup. That boy is only son #1. He's got a 3 year-old brother who's just chomping at the bit. Within a few years, we'll have almost a full trap squad (or one fire-team for those SHTF-types around here ;)).

Some folks get excited about the idea of their kids getting old enough to do the lawn-mowing. I can't wait until they're old enough to work the reloading presses. :D
 
Some folks get excited about the idea of their kids getting old enough to do the lawn-mowing. I can't wait until they're old enough to work the reloading presses.
Click to expand...
:D
Classic , absolutely classic line.

You are good man with a good family. I know you and the Mrs. are proud.
 
Congrats and Mazeltov,TR. Sounds like a keeper. A couple things...

The short shells are becoming more available, though I regard the 16 in any form as handloaders' territory. It's hard to find any 16 gauge ammo.

Besides W/R, Gamebore imports short 16s, and IIRC so does Woodcock Hill. Orvis may have some sources too.

Do you have Ballistic Products catalogs handy? I believe they carry components and I know they carry hard 7 shot, possibly the best single size for birds.

And by coincidence, I was admiring and handling a Sweet 16 A-5 today. The grey haired man owning it was the son of the first owner. Straight grip, no rib,I/C choke, pretty wood.Little more than 6s lbs, I guess. Covet,covet....

Your glass is half full....
 
Thanks Dave!

As you stated, there are numerous sources for "outdated" ammo. Just check the gun rags at the bookstore and look for anything showing a picture of a SxS that costs about as much as your house. Leaf through it for a couple minutes and you'll find any number of ads.

While I agree that #7 is a good load, I've not been overly happy with it for use on pheasants, and it hasn't proven to be a LOT better than #7.5 on smaller, more frail birds. So, once I'm done with this batch, I'll probably just stick with #5 for the ringnecks and readily available #7.5 for the rest.

BTW, I don't have a BP catalog, and I've been a little scared to order one, since then I might find too many things I "need". :uhoh:

Those A5s are sure nice guns. After two owners and a few decades, it's probably broken in just right. The real question is whether or not you'd be able to keep from shucking the forearm. ;)
 
The real question is whether or not you'd be able to keep from shucking the forearm.
Click to expand...

:p
That sure is the truth. I remember the first time I shot an old A5, after trying to work the pump action about 3 time I finally remembered it was an autoloader.
 
A relatively dumb question, but couldn't you have the "short chamber" reamed to 2 3/4? Reason I ask is I'm looking for a 16 g Winchester 97 barrel reamed to 2 3/4 so I don't need to harm my stock barrel.
 
auschip - You can have chambers reamed... and it's not uncommon to find older guns which have already had this done. However, depending upon the type of gun, you may have other issues (usually related to extraction) to worry about. I know when I looked into getting my A5 modified to accept 2 3/4" shells, it sounded like a lot more trouble and expense than I was interested in.

As far as Model 12s in particular, I don't know if simply lengthening the chamber will take care of it, or if anything needs to be swapped out or milled to ensure proper feeding. In my case, it's moot, since I've got the shells and consider reloading for them an enjoyable quirk of ownership.

The only thing to be very certain about is that anyone who might shoot such a gun are made aware of such quirks well in advance. I've got a little folder in the front of the safe explaining in great detail anything that's out of the ordinary. I figure that it's my responsibility to make sure my beloved family members retain life, limb and eyesight.
 
Geewhiz, when I get this "new" '56 16 ga. 870 Wingmaster up and running for the Mrs., we should have a 16 ga. shoot somewhere. It seems like everyone has one!
Mike
 
You're very welcome, TR. BP's wishbook is chockful of neat "Things".

The 16 is an excellent choice for upland game in a proper shotgun for the gauge. This should be lighter than most 12s. The Rule of 96 warrants about a 6 lb shotgun for an oz load, and good 16s fall right about there on the scales.

Even modern 7/8 oz loads pack enough pizazz to be effective out to 35 yards or so on smaller game birds.

IIRC, the Model 12 in 16 gauge was built on the 20 gauge frame. That should bring it in about 6 lbs.

The 16, due to ammo concerns, is not here and now a good choice for the shotgunner who wants an all arounder for his/her only shotgun.

But, for those who want to branch out a bit, there's a lot of reasonably priced 16s out there that will function well for casual clays, upland game and even deer or hogs with the right slug. The Rottweil Brenekke in 16 is a classic load for boar in Europe.

Some of the older 16s out there, even those with 2 3/4" chambers, are available more cheaply than their 12 or 20 gauge siblings.

I recall having to pass about a decade ago on an Ansley Fox 16, a field grade but well preserved SxS for $300. Still hurts a little...
 
model 12's are much easer to convert than a-5's,the chamber can be opened to 2 1/2,(its better to alter the chamber with the barrel assy off the reciever),remember the model 12 has a chamber ring that is attached to the reciever,it's 1/4 of an inch thick,this plus the 2 1/2 is 2 3/4.the ejection port needs to be lengthened twords the breach 1/4 of an inch,thats all thats needed.we have done this for years on m12,a-5 and others,so its no big deal with the tooling and fictures we have but its not a good thing to do if you just want to try it.its not for everyone because its not the way it was made from the factory but to some it is a good way to find a good deal and shoot whatever is there.
 
Thanks for the info Paul. What do you charge for such a service on a Model 12? Also, aside from decreasing any collector value, is there any downside to performing those modifications?
 
i think that we charge eather $150.00 or $200.00 for the conversion,model 12's are the quickest so i will say $150.00.most of the time is in the set-up,you must get it correct theres only one shot at it.as far as reciever strength,it will not weaken or harm the reciever.the cut in the port is touched up with cold blue unless we re-finish the firearm.i get to do mine monday,i found a short m12 16ga also,its getting our anniversary rib and a hand finish.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
  • Locked
Pheasant hunting with a 16ga. M12
Replies
6
Views
464
Dave McCracken
D
somethingbenign
  • Locked
Lefever Nitro Special
Replies
11
Views
3K
Michael Tinker Pearce
Michael Tinker Pearce
red rick
  • Locked
Ithaca 16 ga SXS
Replies
10
Views
623
Cvans
Cvans
chas08
  • Locked
New (old) 16ga.
Replies
5
Views
348
earlthegoat2
earlthegoat2
B
  • Locked
Rework short-chambered A5?
Replies
1
Views
530
rcmodel
R
Back
Top