Debate about bullet type for big game hunting

[gamestalker]

A buddy of mine who has recently opened a small business that among other things, offers load development engaged in a debate with me about bullets for big game hunting. We were primarily discussing deer hunting bullets. His opinion is a bullet that has less jacket to core integrity is more suitable than say a Nosler Partition, Accubond, Speer Grand Slam and so, you get the idea.
Anyway he contends that a super high velocity light weight bullet for varmit hunting or a standard construction integrity bullet for the 7mm Rem. mag., which was the example he threw out there, is going to produce a more efficient and quicker kill than one of the other bullets constructed to produce good penetration and controlled expansion. I was kind of surprised at his off the wall optinion. He says a bullet that explodes with massive fragmenting is going to do much more in terms of stopping power.
I've killed a lot of deer in my life time, not to mention elk and other larger game and have always used a bullet known for it core to jacket integrity and have yet to loose an animal or excessive meat damage. As I explained to him, I've been fortunate enough to have made a lot of vital shots on most of my kills, and the effects are always simular. The bullet produces a small entry hole, and leaves an exit hole the size of a soft ball or larger using big game hunting grade bullets. I can't imagine choosing a 110 gr. TNT at 3700 fps to kill a 200 plus pound mule deer. Don't get me wrong, I load light weight bullets (120 gr. - 130 gr.) for deer and such as well, but I use bullets of excellent integrity that will expand well while producing 100% penetration. The word hamburger comes to mind.
By the way, he leaves on the 22nd of this month for an Alaskan Caribou hunt. I didn't ask him what bullet he will use but I would hope it won't be a light weight HP or he just might piss the animal off, or more seriously speaking, he might wind up loosing his trophy bull

 

[Steve C]

IMHO. Regardless of bullet construction a bullet must be placed in the proper location with deep enough penetration for a clean kill. A gut shot animal will have some time to suffer regardless of bullet though a violently expanding bullet would cause more organ damage and may shorten this period. A wound in the lower leg that was a simple hole left by a solid bullet could be survivable by an animal where an expanding bullet may blow the leg off making the wound lingering and unsurvivable though the animal may escape the hunter.

I guess it depends upon what type of hunter you are. If you hunt primarily for consumption of your game then any high velocity, thin jacket, violent expanding bullet that blows large wound channels spoils too much meat and for that type hunter wastes the game. For this type hunting the less violent the expansion the better.

For the hunter that cares little about the consumption of their game and is intent upon mounting parts of the game on the wall then a more devastating bullet may produce a quicker eventual kill with a poor shot.

 

[Walkalong]

An age old argument.

I'll take a well placed slug that expands and holds together vs the "quick shock" of a small high speed bullet that blows apart.

 

[USSR]

I'll take a well placed slug that expands and holds together vs the "quick shock" of a small high speed bullet that blows apart.

Yep. You want an exit hole. A bullet that blows up inside a big game animal and does not exit on the far side of the critter is a bullet failure in my book.

Don

 

[kingmt]

He is right. However every bullet is different & you need to do expansion test to see how fast you need your bullet moving. If you slow down a varmint bullet then you will get better penetration. Shoot placement is always the most important. Everyone is always wanting a exit hole for a blood trail but why would you need a exit if there is no trail anyhow. I would much rather go get the deer from where it was standing then go look for it. Unless I could figure out how to get them to run to my vehicle.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Actually, I like a bullet that does BOTH.

The Nosler Partition is really good in this regard. It expands violently on impact and penetrates well. Actually, it doesn't penetrate as well as many think. I've seen Remington Corlokts and Hornady Interloks penetrate further though they had less initial expansion than the Nosler's. This was the impetus several years back for the Partition-Gold. It had a smaller frontal section and longer rear section. It seems to have gone away with the shift towards the Barnses monolithic X-bullet technology with Nosler coming out with the "E" tip bullet to compete...

A bullet that does BOTH really well is the Berger VLD "Hunting" bullets. I've taken three deer with the Berger .257" 115gr VLD. Two were from .257Roberts at 2,900fps and one from a .257wbymag at 3,200fps.

All three were bang-flops even though intentionally heart-lung shots. All three had bullet core/base exit with 3" exit-wound, but substantial fragmentation and really devastating expansion and tissue destruction.

I like a bullet to exit only because it typically leaves a larger hole than entry due to expansion and therefore a better blood trail. However, I've had some bullets fail to expand and lost the animal due to that- inadequate damage and lack of blood-trail. So, if over penetration or excessive expansion is the ONLY options, I'll go with excessive expansion. And retain the option to shoot more than ONCE....

FWIW: I took a really young shooter out deer hunting once that really, really wanted to take a deer. He could shoot really well, but was recoil sensative. He took a deer with my .22Hornet and 35gr V-max at 100yds. Bullet exploded on impact and created a grape-fruit sized cavity in the deers chest that included the heart and part of both lungs. Deer reared up on it's hind legs and fell over. I was suprised and amazed. But, I wouldn't care to use the bullet again for that purpose. given an choice.......

 

[USSR]

Deer are funny creatures. Many times they just don't know that they're dead and continue on for 40-50 yards with a huge hole through their lungs or the top of their heart missing, until their blood pressure drops. Have shot 2 - 3 dozen of them over the years, and in the heavy brush that I hunt in, I want to see a good blood trail which is only provided by having a good size exit hole. When I hunted with 12 Gauge slugs, it was no problem. Now that we are allowed to hunt deer with rifles, the proper bullet at the proper speed becomes critical. I have been using and had good luck in my .30-06 with the 178gr Amax bullet at ~2700fps.

Don

 

[gamestalker]

USSR reminded me of an antelope I killed a long time ago in Arizona. I shot him from pretty long range, around 550 yds. and shot placement was picture perfect heart lung. The bullet upon exit took out a massive part of the ribs and most of the lungs and heart. That animal didn't know he had been shot I guess, because he got up after being plowed to the ground and ran another 500 yds. or so before I nailed him again on the run with one to the neck, which flipped him end over end, really cool looking. I was later told by several vetran hunters that antelope are know for running dead. I wouldn't have put the second round in him if I had known my first shot was going to undoubtably drop him not too long afterward, as would have deffinitely been the case. I mean, they can only go so far without a lungs and heart.
But because I absolutely love game meat I always use a well constructed bullet that will do both, deliver good mushroom type expansion, and maintain core and jacket integrity that will enable through and through penetration. I hate having to track a wounded animal.

 

[sage5907]

I agree with your buddy up to a point. I have found that a bullet constructed for medium size game kills deer a lot faster than a heavily constructed bullet like a Nosler partition or Speer Grand Slam. For me the perfect deer load is a 30 caliber 150 grain boattail bullet at 2900 fps that hits the deer with a high shoulder shot. The deer drop in their tracks. The perfect bullet expands to twice its original size and expends all of it's energy inside the deer and ends up under the skin on the far side. The worse situation is a controlled expansion bullet that shoots a small hole all the way through the animal and expends a lot of its energy in the hill on the far side. When I see a deer run after the shot I know I have either used a bullet that is too heavily constructed or my shot placement wasn't good. When I watch deer hunting on the Outdoor Channel and see dirt kick up on the hill on the far side of the animal and the deer runs off at the shot I know the hunter has wasted his money on an ineffective expensive bullet. On the other hand, I wouldn't shoot a bullet that comes apart on impact. I do taxidermy work mounting deer and I really hate to work with a deer skin where the bullet has blown up on impact. Usually this happens with a small caliber bullet at very high velocity. BW

 

[Sidewinder72]

I think the perfect deer bullet is the Accubonds. The best of both worlds for me. Although I have shot many whitetails with Rem. coreloks with great results and great accuracy.