Decisions, decisions...

[strungoutinheaven]

Ok, here's the deal. I'm in the market for a rifle. I want something that's semi-automatic and that accepts high capacity magazines. From what I've read, the vast majority of people swear by ARs. However, my budget is somewhat limited. I need something in the $500-750 range. Theoretically, I could wait and buy an AR in a couple months, however, as much as I want to, the rational side of me knows that dropping a grand on a gun right now is a little impractical. Regardless, I've been waiting to buy a gun for about a year now and I finally have a little spare change saved up. I've been looking at AKs, mini 14s/30s and SU-16s. I know this debate has already been had about a million times, however, I have a few more specific questions.

I was almost positive that I wanted an AK, and came damn close to buying one, when my cousin convinced me that a mini 30 would be a better investment. At first this seemed like a good idea, as the Ruger seemed like a better quality gun (as compared to AKs in the same price range)--which lead me to believe it was more accurate, it accepted magazines of the same capacity as the AK, was capable of shooting both 7.62 and .223 rounds, and seemed more resiliant to abuse than an AR-15 due to its gas system, simpler parts, etc. However, as I did more research, I discovered other problems such as the expense, scarcity and low quality of high capacity magazines, the barrel being designed for .308 rounds and not .311, etc.

Ssssooo...my questions are:
1. What is the inherent accuracy difference between a .223 and a 7.62? (I know the .223s are more accurate, but how much of it has to do specifically with the round itself as opposed to the gun that shoots it).

2. What is the accuracy difference between a Mini-30 and an AK-47 of comparable price?

3. What are the ratios of the accuracy vs. stopping power difference between the .223s and 7.62s? In other words...is there a more drastic difference between the accuracy or the stopping power of the two rounds? (I'm not looking for actual numbers).

I eventually plan on buying a higher power, longer range rifle at some point, so accuracy is not of utmost importance. But what good is a gun if you can't hit anything with it? I essentially need a gun that is accurate enough for non-competitive, medium-range target shooting and also a practical combat weapon...just in case. Something that is relatively modifiable would be nice too. It doesn't necessarially have to be an assault rifle, just something semi-automatic that accepts high capacity magazines in the 500-750 dollar range. Let me know if there's any guns I overlooked.

I also am pretty unfamiliar with the quality of the SU-16s. Any information on them is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I need something in the $500-750 range. Theoretically, I could wait and buy an AR in a couple months

Within the last month, two of my friends have bought ARs in that price range. While $500 is on the low side, you can find it if you check the used/for sale section of different gun boards. You should also be able to get into a new AR for $750.

1. What is the inherent accuracy difference between a .223 and a 7.62? (I know the .223s are more accurate, but how much of it has to do specifically with the round itself as opposed to the gun that shoots it).

The inherent accuracy difference in the ammo is almost non-existent. I have seen some very accurate 7.62x39 rifles that can run with with any .223. However, most 7.62x39 semi-auto rifles have made a conscious decison to sacrifice some accuracy for increased reliability.

2. What is the accuracy difference between a Mini-30 and an AK-47 of comparable price?

I would be really loathe to recommend a Mini-30 over an AK. Usually the AK will win on both price and performance.

3. What are the ratios of the accuracy vs. stopping power difference between the .223s and 7.62s? In other words...is there a more drastic difference between the accuracy or the stopping power of the two rounds? (I'm not looking for actual numbers).

"Stopping power" is usually used to refer to a simplified way to express lethality of a particular bullet. "Stopping power" depends on a lot of things - shot placement, psychology, projectile/target interaction and ballistics. So the first thing you need to understand is that any answer you get to that question is going to be extremely simplified since it only addresses some of the variables involved.

Depending on the bullet design and the distances involved, .223 usually outperforms 7.62x39 in bare ballistics gel. However, if you have intermediate barriers involved (auto glass, steel, interior walls), the 7.62x39 usually outperforms the .223 on ballistic gel behind those barriers.

As far as accuracy, any of the rifles you mentioned are plenty accurate enough for self-defense purposes at any realistic range you would need them. All of them are capable of putting all the rounds into a 4" group at 100yds.

 

[armoredman]

Military gun Supply mentioned at warrifles.com about building/selling FAL clones for $600, Century recievers but not Century built.

 

[MechAg94]

I would recommend an AK as well over a mini-30. You can get a good quality AK that maintains some accuracy for that price range. High capacity magazines will be easy to get and reliable. Not sure of the mag situation with mini-30's. I have never fired one.

I have a Vepr K, but you can't get them anymore. Correia on this site sells upgraded or modified Saiga AK's that take high cap mags. Saiga, I'm told, makes a very accurate rifle. I think they are well within your price range. Do a search for his posts. His signature has the link to his shop's site.


If you want to stay with .223, the SU-16 uses AR magazines so if you want to upgrade later to an AR, you can use the same stock of magazines.