Defenseless!

[ZRX61]

I was walking across the local college campus one night, about 7pm. Headed to the vending machines for a coke with 3 other *mature* students. Two of the campus (Keystone) cops stopped us & asked if any of us had called in a bomb threat

We said no & asked them what was going on. One of them tells us "oh, someone called in a bomb threat to the Student Services building".

So I asked them "Wouldn't your time be better spent looking for the damn thing instead of asking us stupid questions?

His reply: "We're going to wait until classes are over at 9.30 & then look for it"

My reply to him: "This may not have occured to you, but what is the plan if it is set to explode at 7.30 or 8pm?"

Him: er, ah, um.....

 

[SavageMOA]

Sinixstar, Expound on that a little more.

What BS, inconsistencies, and irrational laws?

 

[Sinixstar]

ZRX - lol.

When I was in highschool, somebody called in a bomb threat to our school. There was an east building and a west building. Aparently the phone rang in the west building - so they rounded everybody up and put 'em in the east building.
Somewhere along the lines somebody asked "if there is a bomb, how are we sure it's in the west building? The main school line rings over there, so anybody who just called the general number would get west..."

All of the sudden, everybody was standing around out on the football field.

 

[Sinixstar]

Sinixstar, Expound on that a little more.

What BS, inconsistencies, and irrational laws?

Well for one, there's a background check system - yet absolute crazies like Cho can still get guns. That's pretty inconsistent.
Nevermind the varied laws from state to state, and the varied enforcement of the law depending on which agency you're dealing with, sometimes even which officer from which agency you're dealing with (that's pretty much universal)

BS like "you can have a high capacity magazine, but only if it was made before 1994" such as in NY. That's pretty BS.

irrational like "you can buy a handgun, but we have to have a shot casing on file" (MD?). (on a side note - this is an even greater idea when dealing with revolvers )

 

[SavageMOA]

Ok, well what do you propose to fix this problem. If you are willing to tear down the system, let us all know your proposed solution to the problem.

And I completely agree that we should keep guns out of the hands of criminals, BUT most criminals do not purchase their guns through legal means.

 

[Sinixstar]

Ok, well what do you propose to fix this problem. If you are willing to tear down the system, let us all know your proposed solution to the problem.

And I completely agree that we should keep guns out of the hands of criminals, BUT most criminals do not purchase their guns through legal means.

And yet, when anti's propose legislation to ban guns, or make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to buy guns - instead of proposing a more effective alternative - such as clamping down on problem dealers, and going after the illicit market - we just jump up and down and cry foul.
Have you seen anyone introduce REAL "common sense" legislation? I sure as heck haven't.

We may be right, and the other side may be wrong - but we're failing miserably when it comes to proposing alternatives...

 

[SavageMOA]

I still haven't heard what you think an "effective" solution would be. I'd really like to hear what you think would be helpful.

 

[Sinixstar]

I've gone over this before, but sure.

Bear in mind, i'm not an FFL, and not extraordinarily well versed in the supply-chain mechanics of the firearm industry - but here goes.
Instead of focusing on the consumer retail side of things - there needs to be more focus put on the supply side. As it stands now, there are essentially two markets - the "legal" retail market, and the "illicit" market.
However, there are only 1 set of mfg's. Guns leave the MFG to be distributed, and some end up in the legal market, and some end up in the illicit market. How? You can't tell me they're all legitimately stolen, so how do you get from a lawful manufacturer or distributor - to the trunk of a car? So first and foremost there needs to be some oversight or at least some investigation into the flow of arms through the legal supply chain. Identify the holes (there are obviously holes), and prosecute those who are creating those holes.

Second, you need to look at the retail outfits themselves. Not all are 100% on the up and up. If you've got a single shop that somehow keeps coming up when tracing guns used in a crime - there's obviously a problem. Perhaps this is something being done now - but it seems it's not something that gets a whole heck of a lot of attention.

next - a little more needs to be done about people who are repeatedly having guns "stolen". Hate to say it - but if you're having 10 glocks stolen a week - maybe you shouldn't be buying any more guns.

Last - close the damn borders! Everybody's focusing on the flood of illegal aliens coming up from Mexico, but some people seem to forget that along with the human cargo is tons of cocaine, marijuana, ecstasy and I have no doubt plenty of guns.

Now - some examples.
I'm a little too lazy to go out and dig up the links right now - but one story that stands out in my mind is actually from Iraq. US Contractor bought a buttload of pistols from Glock to be delivered to Iraq security forces. Where did those guns end up? In Turkey. If our own military can't even control it's supply chain, I have no illusions that the same thing isn't happening here.

Another story that sticks out in my mind, and this was some years ago so it may be hard to track down...
In New York in the late 90s, a gun ring was broken up. The way they were operating was they had someone who was going to a series of shops throughout PA and GA, buying up whatever they could - bringing it back to Staten Island and selling 'em on the street. Once they were gone - they'd go back to the same shops and repeat the process. This apparently went on for several months, and was stopped when one of the people got busted with a trunkload of handguns in the wee hours of the morning. The question I have to ask is, how many times does somebody come in from out of state buying a trunkload of handguns at a time, before it raises an eyebrow. The people selling the guns on the street went to prison, but nothing happened to the shops. Would a reasonable person not realize "hey - maybe something's not right about this?"

 

[Sniper X]

We need to petition to get the Governors offices in every state a gun free zone, so even LEO's can not carry a gun in there and see how long gun free zones last.

 

[Old Guy]

He never did say how old he was...12...14?

Situations that we would pee our pants?

I was a Bouncer in Liverpool UK for 5 years, 4 at the Cavern Club of the Beatles fame, 60 to 64, then a year at a night club on Seal Street, The Blue Angel, got stabbed twice at the Cave, chased by a nut case with a hatchet up the stairs at the Blue Angel, I got to the top first! My kick hit him in the upper lip, just about tore his nose off, and no I never peed my pants.

The Police were happy, he was wanted for GBH.

My Wife and I got a really nice letter from the Head Teacher, she thanked we two for our help, and looking after the children in our care and protection, I did not see it that way, but a fun time was had by all.

And yes I carry every day, carried last night on my Job. Armed Patrol, Gated Community, mostly teen control, well chatting to them, just starting off being adults, biggest majority real nice.

Huge Graduation Party, not one single incident of any kind. A couple asked me why I carried a Firearm. My answer, just in case I need it, same reason I have car insurance. Very nicely dressed children, well most were not really children, teens.

Must look after our children, "Suffer little children to come unto me" I think that is the correct quote.

Keep Safe. Go armed. Just in case.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Several said emergency! A Orlando City PD car was prowling the grounds, roof lights on. They were looking for someone, here am I in a facility on lock down, unarmed like every one else! and a presumably dangerous person, or persons is being sought by armed Police?

This School was not in the best part of the City, a mile from a correctional facility.

Did I ever feel defenseless watching that Orlando PD vehicle outside, we all locked inside, Defenseless!

If you consider yourself defenseless because you don't have a gun, then you have taken the first administrative steps to being a victim...if not already being one and just not knowing it.

Snap out of it! There is a helluva lot more to defense than simply having a gun.

It has been my experience that quite often those that consider themselves defenseless without a gun are often those that aren't that good even with a gun. No insult intended, but my point is that there is a marked lack of preparation often that goes hand-in-hand with the attitude.

If you consider yourself defenseless because you aren't armed, then you just aren't thinking.

 

[Old Guy]

Well double O,

My dear old Dad many years gone said to me, and he did not know much about guns, you get a lot more with a gun and a kind word, than just a kind word.

The PD were looking for an escaped prisoner, I am 73 YOA, in good shape, taught via my own business Firearms full time, for 25 years. And yes I am a good shot, been shooting Pistols since 1953.

And I would feel much better with my Glock 19, just sitting there on my belt, minding it's own business than it being some were else.

Our local PD the Orlando PD do not prowl over a property roof lights on, for an exercise in traction. They were concerned, I was also, they have radios.

I had my Wife and Daughter with me in that large class room plus around 30 lovely little children.

This was not a good part of the City. Was I frightened, no, but you don't get to be my age and living in six Country's by being naive.

You have an opinion? Of course, we all do.

 

[James T Thomas]

seni~or citizen

Dear "Old Guy:"

Please join the people who like you have lived awhile, and
get yourself some

Gumption and a

Gat. Or Glock.

And to blazes with the bureauocracy.

This will be our little secret, and no one else needs to know.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Well Old Guy, if you are 73, in good shape, and have all that experience, then I can't imagine why you would feel defenseless. Sure, you might feel better with a gun, but defenseless without it? Sounds like you have all ready thrown in the towel.

With your 73 years of experience, you could not think of a way to make that room full of people safer? First of all, you were locked inside. Unless you think your wife or one of those children was the threat, you already had the first level of defense available to you, a barrier.

What do you do from there? You don't have an immediate threat, so you have time to work out what options you have available to you including hardening the room and plans for egress.

Did you have a room with or without windows? What floor were you on?

Professor Liviu Librescu certainly did not consider himself defenseless even though he was not armed, and he was older than you and put up a helluva defense.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Right. E&E in a installation that has been placed on lockdown.

Great stuff!!!! /sarcasm

Me thinks home school the children and exercise the Castle Doctrine if it ever have trouble breaking in your door.

 

[Old Guy]

Well double o,

I think I have to go and read a book, there is only so much insult I can take from a mouth on the INTERNET.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

And we wonder why we are losing good people each week on this website. Too many people taking things way too personal.

I should have been more direct and taken on the issue of how someone can post about being in a situation and then get torn apart like a prey by wolves that may or may not ever see a similar situation in real life.

There are many people who will form a line of thought or opinion and they can hurt feelings with this here internet thing.

Sometimes the internet makes it easy to do this without actually having to say it to someone FTF in person.

I think that we are the problem and we need to do better whenever someone writes about a situation that may or may not result in gun use or other problems in life.

There, I managed to open my big mouth and step in it. Here is someone like Old Guy who is probably at least twice my years on this here earth thinking that books are better than this fancy internet.

We ought to be shamed.

 

[devildog66]

I find it amusing that the schools are so safe that armed policeman have to be present. Not to mention, that the euphemism, "resource officer" is used for a police officer. As though he has extra #2 pencils stashed as a resource...

 

[RP88]

lacking the proposition of alternative solutions and bickering with the anti-freedom types aside, saying one doesn't NEED a gun because the police were present is embracing their argument, and makes some of us our own worst enemy.

And the only real alternative solution is to get our hands dirty and put some money down for more prisons and pass mandatory time served laws for violent crimes.