Delay indicted! House Majority Leader has been indicted ... (merged threads)

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Kinda scary to see the courts wielded as a weapon against political adversaries. But I guess that's all you can do when you can't defeat his politics or his constituents. Kill the messenger, and all that...
look, that much "conspiracy" makes the tinfoil hats drool. Even if the judge was "in on" the conspiracy to get him, he still has to rule on the facts.

If he bound over on charges that were unfounded, they could go straight over his head to appellate courts and get it overturned.... and the judge would get his ass kicked for misconduct.

Judges have some leeway, but if there was not good cause here, no judge is going to trash himself just to force a trial where the defendant is sure to be acquitted.

In fact, the trial would be before a different judge and the defense lawyers can AGAIN move for dismissal based on lack of evidence.... which would mean that both trial judges and the appellate court would have to be part of the conspiracy to "get" DeLay.

DA's do NOT like to lose, and it is their discretion as to going to trial or not. If there is a DA chomping at the bit here, I would wager there are grounds for the charges. Time will tell.
 
Yea, DA's don't like to lose. Fact. Which is only valid if DA is in fact a legal animal. Now, if the DA is a political animal acting like a legal animal one could question the prosecutor's discretion.

Now to the political realities. Whether or not DeLay is guilty is right beside the point. The real point is DeLay, with the indictment, now sits under a legal cloud; whether or not it is true is not the issue. He is now being pursued by the legal system. He may well be innocent but it will take time and the countless stories of hiim sitting under the cloud will never be erased from the publics mind. The constant news cycle will create its own reality. Just feed someone in the machine and they'll come out guilty or destroyed. Countless public officials have been destroyed using the law for partisan advantage. I find it disgusting and sickening. . . . just like my cat's hairball. Trouble is, it is reality.
 
It would be hard to find a more liberal, Republican bashing, hemp clothes wearing, bunch of hippy dope smoking, Communist liberal greenie agenda, morons to get an indictment from.

While Ronnie Earle is an ass, those are some interesting comments you're spewing there.

QUIZ:

1. Which Texas city elected the state rep. that drafted HB 823, which defined "traveling" as being in a car?

2. Which Texas city elected a prosecutor that claims he's going to ignore the above mentioned law?

3. Which Texas city continually elects Sheila Jackson Lee?

Today, while driving in south Austin, I saw an interesting billboard: "ConocoPhilips is not a friend of the Second Amendment". Seen one of those in Dripping Springs?

My point is that there are plenty of liberals in Texas, and in sheer numbers, the liberals in other parts of the state outnumber the ones in Austin. Yay. Who cares. Sure is fun to bash the capitol city though, isn't it?
 
For all of you Delay Supporters....

I grew up in Sugarland, I now live in San Antonio.

I attended a Delay rally at a Jewish community center.

He made it quite clear to me that day that he should be thrown out of office by saying:

I support Israel, and will encourage this nations continuing support of Israel because, when it comes down to it, God gave that land to the Jews. I identify myself more with the jews in this country than I do those muslim barbarians. God wants the jewish people to have that land and I will continue to use my political influence to carry out gods word.
 
Here's an interesting article about some of Earle's comments at a Democratic Fundrasier.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050520-114648-1622r.htm

1. In my opinion, a democratic fund rasier is neither the time or the place for insulting people you are investigating. Especially if that person is in the other party, it hurts your credibility.

2. 100% of Congress should be indicted for crimes against the United States Constitution. Each and everyone of them. Which would make me a horrible jurror in this case.

3. I would venture to say that if you were to poll the entire country, more than 75% of it would say that they think all politicians in our system are crooked. Look at the travel scandle we had earlier this year when they were after Frist or Delay for accepting trips as gifts and improperly reporting them. They dug deeper and found out the entire congress was doing it. So what did congress do about it . . . they passed a vote that gave everybody a pass if they reported everything. (The story obviously died when the media found out there were more then Repubs involved.)

4. I have never seen a more unethical group of people then those who gather in DC to govern us.
 
Now to the political realities. Whether or not DeLay is guilty is right beside the point. The real point is DeLay, with the indictment, now sits under a legal cloud; whether or not it is true is not the issue. He is now being pursued by the legal system. He may well be innocent but it will take time and the countless stories of hiim sitting under the cloud will never be erased from the publics mind.
OK, true.... but he is getting no more or less of a "cloud" than anyother citizen who gets indicted. In reality, he will get far better legal representation than 99.99% of Americans would get and his constituents will raise money for his legal defense if the need arises.

He did not lose his job (senator), he will never spend a second in jail unless and until he is convicted. I can't muster a big BOO-HOO for DeLay considering what the average guy goes through when he:

is now being pursued by the legal system

If the charges are bogus, DeLay will be able to wave his acquittal as a banner and beat the Democrats to death with it. If the charges are true, he should be kicked out of his job (at minimum) and do the same time anybody else would.
 
Yea, DA's don't like to lose. Fact. Which is only valid if DA is in fact a legal animal. Now, if the DA is a political animal acting like a legal animal one could question the prosecutor's discretion.
Every political DA I knew had aspirations to be governor, and they ran as being tough on crime: in other words, their rate of convictions was their key resume metric.

I really don't think any DA is going to go to court with bogus charges, for the simple reason it is his call to evaluate the viability of the case and that will make him look like a complete idiot.
 
Ronnie baby seemed rational when he first got going. Heck, I remember when he was young and good-looking! :) Most of his political cases, though, were against conservative Democrats. There weren't any Republicans around in those days.

He's become far more emotionally biased in the Liberal cause, over the decades. His effort against Sen. Hutchison, just before the last election, was esentially thrown out of court.

Ronnie has been working for two years on this case. Previous Grand Juries weren't convinced to return an indictment. Ronnie finally found some suckers he could convince. Dunno how hard he worked to pack the GJ. Reasonable odds that any trial of DeLay woud be in his home couny, which is more in keeping with Texas law.

Sure, it's a temporary problem for the Republicans. From what's being said, however, they're suddenly looking around to come back together, getting out of this recent disarray...Possibly an unintended consequence of Ronnie's effort that will boomerang on his sorry (bleep).

Art
 
Partisan politics through and through.

They did the same to Newt Gingrich becuase of his so-called ethics violations.

If anyone knows how to work the court systems its the liberals.
 
Abuse of Power

Note:

  • This same AG did this to Senator Hutchison. The day the trial was to start, the AG dropped all the charges.
  • This was the fifth time good-ol Greg has tried to get an indictment... guess five times is a charm in the Texas legal system. Have to make sure the left...er right Grand Jury hears the "evidence".
  • In the Dallas Morning News (aka Pravda-Dallas), the indictment was "front page - above the fold". I don't expect to see the announcment of (1) Greg dropping the charges or (2) Delay declaired innocent in the same prominent place... if at all

Good-Ol Texas AG - Greg Abbott ... can anyone say "Texas Penal Code § 39.03.a.1/2 OFFICIAL OPPRESSION".
 
I'm no DeLay fan. His cosiness with the religious right gives me the willies. However, the D.A. is a worthless, liberal Democrat scumbag who's abusing his prosecutorial powers. He tried the same crap with Sen. Hutchinson and failed. That "conspiracy" charge is about the most weakass, trumped-up horsecrap I can imagine. BTW, Martha's a Democrat and a close friend of Hitlery. Thought that prosecuting Martha was silly as hell, too.
 
Sure, it's a temporary problem for the Republicans. From what's being said, however, they're suddenly looking around to come back together, getting out of this recent disarray...Possibly an unintended consequence of Ronnie's effort that will boomerang on his sorry (bleep).

Art
That's my point excatly: if these are bogus charges, it will be a very temporary problem for DeLay (until the charges are dropped or thrown out) and then he will be able to scream "I told you so!" until the sun freezes over.

And the GOP will be able to claim that "they are out to get us" and use politicking as an excuse for any new graft or illegalities they get caught at.

If there is nothing to support these charges, I would say the DA in question has to be the stupidest idiot on earth because he is shooting his own party in the head.
 
What about the three dings the House ethics panel handed to Delay? There might be something to this other than politics as usual. Five Republicans and Five Democrats voted unanimously - which is something I find odd.
 
What about the three dings the House ethics panel handed to Delay? There might be something to this other than politics as usual. Five Republicans and Five Democrats voted unanimously - which is something I find odd.
That is odd, I didn't think five Democrats and republicans could agree on anything except a pay raise...... :evil:

The word by some analysts is that some repubs have been silently pissed off at DeLay for some time because of his "hammer time" grandstanding and making it look like the repubs just are there to pick fights with demos..... which they are, but they don't want it to look that way.

The guy reminds me a lot of Newt Gingrich who was the most powerful GOP member at one time and the self-appointed leader of their party.... and got a serious ass kicking over his adultery after he was supposedly the poster boy for the Moral majority. He never returned to any kind of influence within the party after that and is basically considered a laugher (especially when he says he is the front-runner for the next presidential candidate).:p

Bottom line, Newt found out what DeLay is finding out: if you set yourself up as the leader and take every opportunity to pound on other people for anything you can dig up on them....... your house better be SQUEAKY clean. Because the first time you slip, the dogs will be on the swarm.
 
If there is nothing to support these charges, I would say the DA in question has to be the stupidest idiot on earth because he is shooting his own party in the head.
He may well be stupid. But its coming out now the goober took 3 swings at Hutchinson before she got elected senator. He's made his case about DeLay before at least 4 grand juries and maybe 5 before he found one that would bite. On the basis of info presented so far it looks like American Jihad in effect.
 
The problem with Republicans is that they roll over at the first sign of controversy. They don't stand up for each other and they fear being labled criminals, sexists or racists more than they fear death. I despise Democrats as misguided fools but atleast they stand up for each other when one of them is accused or even has done something wrong. No matter how much the losers Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton did things wrong they never lost the support of there party. On the flip side look at Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott and Bob Livingston. Look how easily they lost there positions.
 
3-day-old-chili

I have a love-hate thing going with the brand of politics invovled in the Delay matter.

I hate a bunch of hipocritical idiots spending a lot of MY money to make party-politic brownie points with each other.

I LOVE... the fact that while they are sniping at each other they have less time and engery to attack my liberties!

Unfortunately, these things also seem to have a way of coming back in a most unpleasent 3-day-old-chili-left-on-the-counter kind of way concerning my freedom.
 
What about the three dings the House ethics panel handed to Delay? There might be something to this other than politics as usual.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64194-2005Apr18.html

DeLay's overseas travel, his ties to Washington lobbyists and his hard-edged political style that prompted three admonitions from the House ethics committee last year have received intense media scrutiny. One question raised has been whether DeLay's travel was paid for by nonprofit groups or by lobbyists and private interests working through those groups.


can't call it "politics" when he is getting his ass kicked by his own party:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12933-2004Oct6.html

DeLay Draws Third Rebuke
Ethics Panel Cites Two Situations

By Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 7, 2004; Page A01

The House ethics committee last night admonished Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) for asking federal aviation officials to track an airplane involved in a Texas political spat, and for conduct that suggested political donations might influence legislative action.

The two-pronged rebuke marked the second time in six days -- and the third time overall -- that the ethics panel has admonished the House's second-ranking Republican. The back-to-back chastisements are highly unusual for any lawmaker, let alone one who aspires to be speaker, and some watchdog groups called on him to resign his leadership post.

The ethics committee, five Republicans and five Democrats who voted unanimously on the findings, concluded its seven-page letter to DeLay by saying: "In view of the number of instances to date in which the committee has found it necessary to comment on conduct in which you have engaged, it is clearly necessary for you to temper your future actions to assure that you are in full compliance at all times with the applicable House rules and standards of conduct."

/////

The ethics panel faulted DeLay's actions in asking the Federal Aviation Administration last year to help locate a private plane that Republicans thought was carrying Texas Democratic legislators. Some Democratic lawmakers were leaving the state to prevent a quorum that Republicans needed in Austin to pass a bitterly disputed congressional redistricting plan engineered by DeLay. DeLay's staff asked an FAA official to help find the plane in a bid to force the legislators back to the capital.

The ethics report cited House rules that bar members from taking "any official action on the basis of the partisan affiliation . . . of the individuals involved." It noted that the FAA official later said he felt he "had been used" for political purposes. DeLay's role in the matter "raises serious concerns under these standards of conduct," the report said.

//////

The committee also admonished DeLay for his dealings with top officers of Kansas-based Westar Energy Inc. Some of the officers wrote memos in 2002 citing their belief that $56,500 in campaign contributions to political committees associated with DeLay and other Republicans would get them "a seat at the table" where key legislation was being drafted.

The ethics report said lawmakers may not solicit political donations "that may create even an appearance" that they will lead to "special treatment or special access to the member." DeLay's participation in Westar's "golf fundraiser at The Homestead resort on June 2-3, 2002, is objectionable in that those actions, at a minimum, created such an improper appearance," the report said. The golf tournament, which raised money for DeLay's political committees, "took place just as the House-Senate conference on major energy legislation . . . was about to get underway. . . . That legislation was of critical importance to the attendees."

The report said DeLay was "in a position to significantly influence the conference."

/////

Bell said that the ethics committee "agrees that Mr. DeLay acted inappropriately and unethically in the course of conducting his duties," and called for DeLay to step down as majority leader. House Democratic leaders had no comment.

Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said in a statement that the committee has admonished DeLay for three separate incidents in six days -- in addition to the admonishment issued against him a few years ago. She said that "clearly shows that he believes himself to be above the law."

"If the Republican Conference wants the American people to believe that it takes ethics seriously," she continued, "it must insist that Mr. DeLay resign his post as majority leader."
 
What the Charges are About

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678234.shtml


What's been going on down in Texas revolves around a state law that is 102 years old. It bans the use of corporate money in state campaigns. Craig McDonald, who runs a liberal political watchdog group in Austin, discovered $600,000 in corporate contributions to DeLay’s PAC in public records filed with the IRS.

"We had to date never seen such cheating, such an influx of corporate money into our state elections process," says McDonald.

But lawyers for TRMPAC say the law is murky because it allows corporate money to be spent in campaigns for “administrative” functions.

"Well, that's the spin they’re using," says McDonald.

"What do you mean by that," asks Stahl. "They say the money went to administrative functions. They say the law says they can use the money for that reason. What’s wrong? Where’s the hole in that?"

"No, the law is very clear in Texas on how you can use corporate funds: paying your rent, paying your telephone bills, paying your accountant," says McDonald. "Very, very specific limited administrative expenses."

Does he know how they spent that money? "It's in black and white in the IRS reports," says McDonald. "They spent it for political activities, prohibited activities under the Texas law."

He says TRMPAC was anything but secretive about what it was up to. He read from a TRMPAC brochure that went out to corporate executives.

"Rather than just paying for overhead, which is all that is allowable under Texas law, overhead, 'Your support will fund a series of productive and innovative activities,'" says McDonald. "And they go on to list four activities, all of which are really defined as political activities under Texas laws."

And these activities, he says, are "spelled out."

"Candidate evaluation recruitment. Message development and communication," says McDonald. "These activities cannot be paid for with corporate dollars under Texas law."

/////////

"Active candidate evaluation and recruitment. Message development. Market research and issue development," says Stahl. "I mean, how is that administrative?"

"Active candidate evaluation and recruitment, that’s a party of administrative procedure," says Carter. "That’s a party function."

"I thought administration was the running of the office. The Xerox machine. Paying bills," says Stahl.

"This is what the court has to rule on," says Carter. "If they find all these things are administrative, there’ll be no convictions in this case."

Would this be considered a technicality – a way to revolve around a definition of administrative?

//////



Meanwhile in Texas, three of the indicted companies have agreed to cooperate with the investigation, and lawyers following the case say the prosecutor may try and “flip” the two DeLay associates indicted in the case -- offering Jim Ellis and TRMPAC Executive Director John Colliandro a deal in exchange for evidence against DeLay.


/////

"And now, some people might say, 'You know, all these Republicans did was try to get elected. And, you know, politics ain't bean bag, as we've heard many times. They just played hard,'" says Stahl.

"You bet. I think that's great," says Earle. "The problem here is we believe that the law was broken in the process. That's the point. The law was broken."
 
People are stupid... with short attention spans

(Present company excepted)

The only thing that will be remembered is the indictment. The charges are bogus and don't matter anyway. What ultimately happens will be quitely dismissed with a casual "... never mind..." but the damage will be done. Delay is a good man and doesn't deserve this stuff.

In Texas the question is, "How do you tell when a politician is lieing? - They are awake!") Wish people would think a little before they parrot the Party line.

Don't get me wrong. The Republican party is just the reverse side of the same coin on which the Democrates reside. Don't give a dab of warm spit for either set's politics... but they are, in combination, doing a greate deal of damage to the American experiment.

By the way... the experiment really ended in 1865; so I guess I'll just conclude with,"... never mind..."
 
Good-Ol Texas AG - Greg Abbott ... can anyone say "Texas Penal Code § 39.03.a.1/2 OFFICIAL OPPRESSION".

You seem to be confusing Dallas DA Greg Abbott with Austin DA Ronnie Earle. Ronnie Earle is the DA bringing these charges as well as the DA who previously charged Sen. Hutchinson.

bountyhunter:
Meanwhile in Texas, three of the indicted companies have agreed to cooperate with the investigation, and lawyers following the case say the prosecutor may try and “flip” the two DeLay associates indicted in the case -- offering Jim Ellis and TRMPAC Executive Director John Colliandro a deal in exchange for evidence against DeLay.

Actually all the companies agreed to do was to donate to Ronnie Earle's pet special interest - a group that advertises against corporations being involved in politics. Earle agreed to drop felony charges against these corporations in return for the donations. Texas has justified some pretty shady ethics in the past; but I've got to believe that extorting corporations with felony prosecutions is beyond the pale.
 
You are correct. The indictment was brought against Delay by the Travis County DA... I stand corrected.

But the AG is co-habiting the same buildings and Ron would not have done this without the AG's nod.

There is a working relationship between the two and the Texas AG does have the responsibility to "oversee" the activities of the various DA's offices and other elected and law enforcment officials throughout the state. Ron has already has a history of abuse of office.

The AG does bear responsibility in this situation and TPC Ch 39 has been violated.
 
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Even MORE Evidence of Earl's Perfidity & Corruption

Wow. Just, "wow."

Earle is a full-service hack: partisanship, corruption, and incompetence all in one package.

Austin-American Statesman: Travis prosecutors pursued new charge to fix problem with last week's conspiracy count
AAS said:
Last week a Travis County grand jury ended its term by indicting DeLay on a charge that accused him of conspiring to violate state campaign finance laws. The problem with that indictment, according to DeLay's lawyers, was that the conspiracy law did not apply to the election code in 2002. The Texas Legislature changed the law, which went into effect Sept. 1, 2003.

That left Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle and his assistants presenting a complicated case to a group of grand jurors on their first day of meeting.

Prosecutors hoped to fix the problem by reindicting DeLay on charges that he conspired to launder corporate money into political donations. In 2002, the conspiracy law applied to money laundering.
That "problem" being that the law Earle charged Delay with did not exist when the acts Earl alleges are illegal occurred. D'oh!

Delay Moves to Dismiss Charge; Earle Re-indicts Ham Sandwich
Earlier today, Tom DeLay's lawyers moved to dismiss Ronnie Earle's conspiracy indictment on the ground that Texas's conspiracy statute had no application to the election laws until it was amended in 2003--subsequent to the 2002 election cycle that is the subject of the indictment. The Austin Statesman notes that the term of the grand jury that Earle used to indict DeLay expired last week, and the statute of limitation may have run in the meantime.

DeLay's lawyer, Dick DeGuerin, adds an interesting observation:

DeLay's lawyer Dick DeGuerin said "rumors are flying" that prosecutors were trying to find a sitting grand jury, who hadn't heard any of the DeLay case, to return a new money-laundering indictment.

As most of our readers probably know, grand jury proceedings are ex parte, which means that the DA has the grand jury all to himself. The target of an investigation, like DeLay, doesn't get to be represented by counsel and participate in the proceedings. Now that the indictment has been leveled, however, the playing field is even. DeLay gets to hire a lawyer--he's hired a very good one--and he gets equal time with the Court. It will be interesting to see what happens from here.

UPDATE: Sure enough, just a few minutes ago Earle got a new grand jury to indict DeLay on a new charge of "money laundering," which I assume we can take as an acknowledgement that the original charge can't stick. DeLay issued a statement in response to the new indictment:

Ronnie Earle has stooped to a new low with his brand of prosecutorial abuse. He is trying to pull the legal equivalent of a 'do-over' since he knows very well that the charges he brought against me last week are totally manufactured and illegitimate. This is an abomination of justice.

Sounds right to me. Earle may be routed again, as he was when he brought a specious indictment against Kay Hutchison. It helps a lot when you get to hire a lawyer and defend yourself, doesn't it?

ONE MORE THING: If I understand the news reports correctly, Earle just started scrambling around today, or at best within the last day or two, looking for a new grand jury with no prior knowledge of the DeLay matter. And he already had an indictment for "money laundering" by this afternoon? Unbelievable. If this is really correct, someone in Texas needs to take a hard look at their criminal justice system.

FINALLY, I PROMISE: The reprehensible Ronnie Earle admitted in a press conference on September 28 that he wasn't able to get a "money laundering" indictment out of the grand jury that had been sitting in this matter for goodness knows how many months. Now, in a matter of hours, he has gotten a brand new grand jury to return such an indictment--ex parte, with the grand jury hearing from no one but Earle and, presumably, a witness or two. It might be possible to imagine a more partisan, corrupt prosecutor than Ronnie Earle, but that's a thought experiment I'd rather not conduct.

OK, SO SUE ME: I can't resist a bit more from MSNBC's Abrams Report tonight--an interview with Dick DeGuerin, Tom DeLay's lawyer:

Abrams: Thanks for coming back on the program. I haven't even had a chance to look at this indictment. Tell me what it's about.

DeGuerin: I haven't seen it either, but I'll tell you what happened. Earlier today, a motion was filed that spelled out for Ronnie Earle in terms that even he could even understand that there is no such thing as a conspiracy to violate the Texas election code. So the original indictment doesn't charge a crime. So I guess this is his reaction that he had to rush back to the grand jury and charge some other crime.

Abrams: So you think literally, today, today, he went to a grand jury in the afternoon and got an indictment on money laundering that quickly?

DeGuerin: Apparently, after all the motions spelled out there's no conspiracy to violate the election code. It's just real clear, there's no such crime. So apparently in response to that, he rushed before another grand jury.

Abrams: And again, and and we've talked about this before, you appreciate how severe the allegation that you're making against the district attorney is. The notion that this district attorney went to a grand jury in response to you filing a legal motion and as a result, got a grand jury to indict your client is a very serious allegation.

DeGuerin: I think that's exactly what happened, Dan. And make no bones about it, if you look at what we filed, it's just clear as a bell. There's no conspiracy to violate the Texas election code. Ronnie Earle should have known that before they issued the first indictment, but this is apparently like a band-aid, some kind of patchwork to make up for the fact that they issued an indictment for something that's not a crime first.

Ouch. Here is the conclusion:

Abrams: Dick, how do you expect to be able to defend two different charges? Are you going to attack both in the same manner, meaning to basically allege, it sounds like you're doing now, that this is political.

DeGuerin: No, what I said to you, Dan, is the first charge just won't hold water. It is not a crime and it's astounding to me that a district attorney who's been in office for 27 years to get a grand jury to return an indictment for something that's not a crime. All he had to do was look at the books a little bit and he'd learn that. And I suppose that -- earlier today, his reaction was, I'll just go get another indictment for something else.

Abrams: All right. Well, Dick DeGuerin, thank you for coming on the program, talking about this as it's happening. We'll see if we can get more information on this. Let me publicly invite district attorney Ronnie Earle to come to the program. You heard Dick DeGuerin make some serious allegations. You are invited to come on the program and respond. Come on tomorrow whatever the case may be. We want to make sure we're being fair about this.

Will Ronnie Earle go on the radio to try to defend his abuse of power? Don't hold your breath. It is a scandal that he still holds a position of responsibility in Travis County. I know that ethics complaints, etc., have been filed against Earle for his misconduct, and an effort is underway to bar him from the practice of law. But the real solution is for the electorate to turn him out of office. The man is a disgrace to honest lawyers everywhere.
 
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