Developing 180gr. Nosler BT load for .300WM. Fine tune the load or try new bullet or powder?

[wombat13]

I've been working on a new load for my Ruger Hawkeye in .300WM. I have a fantastic hunting load (165 gr. TSX & IMR 4831), but I hoped to find another and preferably with a cheaper bullet. I decided to try the OCW method since temperatures during hunting season can range from 0 to 60F and thought this method would help me find a load that shouldn't change POI.

I started with IMR 4350 because I have it on hand and Nosler shows the most accurate load they tested with that powder yielded high velocity and is near the max load listed by Hodgdon (71 gr.). I've found two consecutive loads (70.3 gr and 71.0 gr) that hit nearly the same POI, but the three-shot groups aren't spectacular. Groups were shot at 100 yards with a Led Sled and Leupold VX-6 on 12x, so shooter error should be minimized. The 70.3 gr load has two shots within 1/2 in and the third 1.25 in to the right. The 71.0 gr load has two shots within 1/2 in and the third 1 in low. Between the two loads, four of the six shots are within 3/4 in.

So, my question is, do I continue working with this bullet/powder combination or not? If I continue, my plan will be to load 5 rounds at each of 70.0, 70.2, 70.4, 70.6, 70.8, and 71.0 gr. If I have a series of loads within that range that hit the same POI, I would then play with seating depth. Unfortunately, the Ruger box magazine is pretty short, so my range of seating depths are limited.

The alternative is to try a different bullet or powder. I've also done the same OCW with 180 gr. Accubonds and IMR 4350 with similar result. Several years ago I tested 180 gr NBT, NAB, SGK, and Hornady SSTs with RL22, Hybrid 100V, and IMR 4831. Best I could do was about a 1.25" four shot groups with NBT and RL22. If you think I should try a different powder which would you try? I have the following on hand: AA 4350, H4831, Hybrid 100V, IMR 4350, 4831, 7828SSC, and RL22.

If I should try a different bullet, which? The SSTs grouped poorly in my rifle. I think the rifle doesn't like the secant ogive. Should I try other bullet weights? I've already got a good load with 165 gr. TSX. Should I try a 200 gr or 210 grain bullet?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions you can offer.

 

[dgod]

I personally like the ELD-X bullets, a load I use: 200gr ELD-X with 68.0gr of IMR-4350, resulting in 2,964fps, Extreme Spread 75fps, Std Dev 25fps, at 200 yds, they group at just under 1". For some reason, I did not record the COAL... I tend to seat at 0.010 off the Lands for my rifle. Mine is a Savage, III XP Trophy Hunter, 1-10 twist, 24" barrel, topped with a Leopold 10x40x50 AO. I use a Leadsled as well.

Good Luck
Dan

 

[LoonWulf]

My 300 hawkeye seemed to do better with the lighter bullet weights. 150-165s (including Hornadys cheap whitetail ammo) were about 1" consistently, the 180s, 208s, and 220s, i tried were 1.25-1.5"

Ive found i prefer imr4831 or slower for the .300, accuracy and velocity seems better over the range of bullets ive tried in a couple rifles.

Also try loading a few of those balistic tips at single shot lengths, and seeing how they shoot. Ive found that the more jump you have (my ruger loads were 3.3ish if i remember correctly, and to lands was 3.4 and change with the .208s), the less tolerance there is for bullet miss alignment.

 

[cougar1717]

I may be wrong, but I think that it is wasted effort to take the time to fine tune the 70-71 loading and expect a better result. 300WM has a large charge and the 0.2gr increments are only a 0.3% incremental change and 1.4% total. It sounds like the rifle has been previously tested with a few loads that grouped basically what you're grouping. It is possible that the 1.25" groups are the best it can do. I think that I would at least try a 180 NAB or NBT with your IMR 7828SSC. If that combo doesn't get it, I would try lead core 165's.

 

[.308 Norma]

For deer and elk with the .300 Win Mag I had, I used to use 165gr. Speer Grand Slams over 77grs. (I think) of Reloader 22. In my .308 Norma Mag, I use 165gr. Sierra HPBT's over 76grs. of H4831. Either load in my rifles was(is) plenty accurate for hunting - at 100 yards, about an inch for 3 shots with the Model 70, .300 Win Mag I used to have, and 3 touching with the custom Montana Rifle Company, .308 Norma I now have.
However, because I'm a bit old school, I cringed a little at first at the thought of using HPs for big game hunting. I was wrong. Those Sierra HPBT's have held together real well for me on the 5 mule deer and 1 elk I've killed so far with my .308 Norma. And I'm cranking them out at over 3100fps.

 

[Archie]

I have to ask: Are you seeking a hunting load or a target load?

From your original post, your groups are between .75 and 1.25 MOA. I should think this would be sufficient for hunting large U. S. game at ranges within probable limits. And it will no doubt kill what you shoot.

The need for groups smaller than .5 MOA is limited to long range varmint shooters and best rest competitors. Yes, it would be neat, but isn't really needful.

Just a thought.

 

[wombat13]

I personally like the ELD-X bullets, a load I use: 200gr ELD-X with 68.0gr of IMR-4350, resulting in 2,964fps, Extreme Spread 75fps, Std Dev 25fps, at 200 yds, they group at just under 1". For some reason, I did not record the COAL... I tend to seat at 0.010 off the Lands for my rifle. Mine is a Savage, III XP Trophy Hunter, 1-10 twist, 24" barrel, topped with a Leopold 10x40x50 AO. I use a Leadsled as well.

Good Luck
Dan

Thanks for the info. I can't load that close to the lands if I want the rounds to fit in the magazine. That maybe why the TSX are more accurate in my rifle - Barnes recommends loading them with a jump. I'm also hesitant to try another secant ogive bullet because the SST grouped poorly. I've read that secant bullets are more sensitive to seating depth.

 

[wombat13]

My 300 hawkeye seemed to do better with the lighter bullet weights. 150-165s (including Hornadys cheap whitetail ammo) were about 1" consistently, the 180s, 208s, and 220s, i tried were 1.25-1.5"

Ive found i prefer imr4831 or slower for the .300, accuracy and velocity seems better over the range of bullets ive tried in a couple rifles.

Also try loading a few of those balistic tips at single shot lengths, and seeing how they shoot. Ive found that the more jump you have (my ruger loads were 3.3ish if i remember correctly, and to lands was 3.4 and change with the .208s), the less tolerance there is for bullet miss alignment.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm beginning to think my rifle likes light bullets as well. You've given me a new idea. I could test 5-10 at magazine length and 5-10 at single shot length. If they both shoot to same POI but the single shot group tighter, when I hunt I could load the magazine with the shorter cartridges and a long in the chamber.

 

[wombat13]

For deer and elk with the .300 Win Mag I had, I used to use 165gr. Speer Grand Slams over 77grs. (I think) of Reloader 22. In my .308 Norma Mag, I use 165gr. Sierra HPBT's over 76grs. of H4831. Either load in my rifles was(is) plenty accurate for hunting - at 100 yards, about an inch for 3 shots with the Model 70, .300 Win Mag I used to have, and 3 touching with the custom Montana Rifle Company, .308 Norma I now have.
However, because I'm a bit old school, I cringed a little at first at the thought of using HPs for big game hunting. I was wrong. Those Sierra HPBT's have held together real well for me on the 5 mule deer and 1 elk I've killed so far with my .308 Norma. And I'm cranking them out at over 3100fps.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm reluctant to hunt with 165gr and lighter bullets unless they're monometal like the TSX. We've got a lot of bears on our land and would like to have confidence taking a shoulder shot if that's what presents. Have you taken shoulder shots on elk with the bullets you suggested?

 

[wombat13]

I have to ask: Are you seeking a hunting load or a target load?

From your original post, your groups are between .75 and 1.25 MOA. I should think this would be sufficient for hunting large U. S. game at ranges within probable limits. And it will no doubt kill what you shoot.

The need for groups smaller than .5 MOA is limited to long range varmint shooters and best rest competitors. Yes, it would be neat, but isn't really needful.

Just a thought.

Good question. The answer is both. I'm looking for a hunting load that will print tiny groups. My big game hunting season lasts 23 days so I have more opportunities to target shoot. I know 1.5 moa is plenty good enough for deer, but now that I've found one hunting load that shoots 0.75 moa, i don't like shooting targets with a 1.5 moa load.

Now you've given me another option to consider. Maybe I should load some accurate enough hunting loads and then load different target loads. Any suggestions for an accurate target bullet that is cheaper than the Barnes TSX?

 

[horsey300]

Good question. The answer is both. I'm looking for a hunting load that will print tiny groups. My big game hunting season lasts 23 days so I have more opportunities to target shoot. I know 1.5 moa is plenty good enough for deer, but now that I've found one hunting load that shoots 0.75 moa, i don't like shooting targets with a 1.5 moa load.

Now you've given me another option to consider. Maybe I should load some accurate enough hunting loads and then load different target loads. Any suggestions for an accurate target bullet that is cheaper than the Barnes TSX?

Either or both, Sierra 180 pro hunter.

 

[.308 Norma]

Have you taken shoulder shots on elk with the bullets you suggested?

Sorry, but no. The one elk I mentioned was a young and dumb spike, standing broadside with his head turned, staring at me over the sagebrush at maybe 80 yards. I put the bullet behind his left ear.
I don't blame you if you're looking for heavier than 165gr, lead core bullets for use on tougher big game. Especially if the "bears" you're talking about are grizzlies. Little black bears like we have around here, not so much. But if I was going to Alaska to hunt big game, where I might encounter (whether on purpose or not) a large and ornery griz, I'd probably be looking for lead core bullets weighing at least 180grs. But that's if a 30 caliber magnum (my beloved .308 Norma) was largest rifle I had. I'm lucky enough to have a .338 Win Mag that I bought back when I had dreams of a guided Alaskan brown bear hunt. I used my .338 to kill one mule deer, then I put it away in my safe. That was 25 or 30 years ago. It's still there. The dreams have been replaced.

 

[LoonWulf]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm beginning to think my rifle likes light bullets as well. You've given me a new idea. I could test 5-10 at magazine length and 5-10 at single shot length. If they both shoot to same POI but the single shot group tighter, when I hunt I could load the magazine with the shorter cartridges and a long in the chamber.

Thats not a bad idea, i used to do that with my 110. I loaded 2 under at mag length, and had a stock sleeve loaded with longer ones.
That particular rifle could only take a 3.28 or something oal, it was short for the 7 it started life as, and for some reason I thought a .300 would be a good idea.
I also found that with that particular rifle, if i very carefully full length resized without moving the shoulder back any more than necessary i could get the short bullets started strait enough that they shot as well as the longer ones.


On a side note, I WISH Winchester had just started chambering the .308 Norma instead of coming out with a round that really only fits in true long actions.
I REALLY liked the Hawkeye i had in .300, probably wouldnt have let my buddy buy it if it was a Norma instead of the Win......

 

[horsey300]

Thanks for the info. I can't load that close to the lands if I want the rounds to fit in the magazine. That maybe why the TSX are more accurate in my rifle - Barnes recommends loading them with a jump. I'm also hesitant to try another secant ogive bullet because the SST grouped poorly. I've read that secant bullets are more sensitive to seating depth.

The secant ogive is sensitive to depth when not aligning properly with the bore.....true up the action and try again maybe?

 

[spitballer]

Perhaps keep a longer, more accurate round in the chamber for the first shot and use the magazine for follow-ups? At least you wouldn't have to compromise on that first shot, and if it's not jammed in too hard you can get it out without a mess...

 

[.308 Norma]

On a side note, I WISH Winchester had just started chambering the .308 Norma instead of coming out with a round that really only fits in true long actions.

Well yeah, but darn it LoonWulf, if just anyone could go to a sporting goods store and buy themselves a Winchester .308 Norma I wouldn't feel so special.
My Montana Rifle Company, custom .308 Norma Magnum was my retirement gift to myself. I paid for it with my first two Social Security checks. I wouldn't have ever ordered it if I could have just gone to Sam's Gun Shop, and for half the money, bought a scoped, Model 70, .308 Norma off the shelf. I already had a common Model 70, .300 Win Mag that would do anything my .308 Norma will do. Except my .308 Norma does everything with more "panache" of course.

 

[Tinybob]

I've got a buddy that worked up a load that was sub 0.5 moa for his Remington 700 LR in 300WM. He is using Hornady 212gr ELDX over H1000. Charge was around 0.5gr under max. I don't know the speed. He used data and recommend seating depth in Hornady 10th.

 

[LoonWulf]

The initial release from hornady had the 212 at 3.5" coal, which is significantly longer than the "30-06" length mag box on the Ruger will take. Off hand do you know if they changed that? I haven't looked at the more recent "real" data.

 

[LoonWulf]

Well yeah, but darn it LoonWulf, if just anyone could go to a sporting goods store and buy themselves a Winchester .308 Norma I wouldn't feel so special.
My Montana Rifle Company, custom .308 Norma Magnum was my retirement gift to myself. I paid for it with my first two Social Security checks. I wouldn't have ever ordered it if I could have just gone to Sam's Gun Shop, and for half the money, bought a scoped, Model 70, .308 Norma off the shelf. I already had a common Model 70, .300 Win Mag that would do anything my .308 Norma will do. Except my .308 Norma does everything with more "panache" of course.

LOL, All true, and very good points!

 

[Tinybob]

In the Hornady 10th they used a Remington 700 w/25" barrel

H1000 data start 65.3gr with listed 2400fps
Max of 77.6gr with a listed 2800fps
Hornady/Frontier brass
WLRM primer
Trim to length of 2.610"
Seated to 3.500"

Also said that max COAL is 3.340" so that's a little confusing if you're not familiar with the longer eld bullets.

This same buddy was using imr 4831 with 180gr SST. He also had lackluster results of 1.5 moa.

 

[LoonWulf]

Thanks Bob, I dont have the 10th edition yet, appreciate the info.

 

[Tinybob]

Man you bet, any time!

 

[entropy]

My loads are older; they come from Nosler's #2 manual; My Dad loaded 180 Partitions for Moose at 70.0 gr. IMR 4350. He wasn't getting as good of groups as you are, more like 2". I loaded 200 gr. Partitions at 68.0 gr. and was getting about 2" also. He shot his Moose at 50 yards and under (5 shots total, all in the lungs) so they were more than accurate enough. (Would have been nice if he'd have aimed at the aorta.) At the same time he shot, I had the cow the bull had been with in my scope, but my Dad shot first.

 

[Archie]

Good question. The answer is both. .. I know 1.5 moa is plenty good enough for deer, but now that I've found one hunting load that shoots 0.75 moa, i don't like shooting targets with a 1.5 moa load.

I can identify with that.

Now you've given me another option to consider. Maybe I should load some accurate enough hunting loads and then load different target loads. Any suggestions for an accurate target bullet that is cheaper than the Barnes TSX?

I'm sure this forum is chock full of hunters, all of whom have a 'favorite' .308" bullet. I do mostly targets and such, but Sierra, Speer and Hornady all make excellent 'plain' soft point bullets in a variety of weights. No, I don't have a favorite nor a brilliant idea on the matter. Other than buy in bulk once you have your own good idea.