Do you get involved

[Shadow 7D]

Right, now consider what may have happened if you pulled a gun. That is the point of this thread, any fight were you have a gun on you, is now a gun fight.

Wife and kids, me+gun, equals a situation where I am looking out for mine, I'm not a cop, search the threads and you will come up with plenty of stories of how intervening went wrong, and right, but I will not endanger my family, I will call the cops and hope they arrive in time. If the situation endangers my family or me, I will respond.

YOU ARE NOT THE COPS, unless or course you are a cop, but even then plenty of off duty cops have been shot and kill "accidentally" by their on duty buddies. What makes you think a CCW, or just armed citizen will fare any better?

 

[Jbabbler]

Right, now consider what may have happened if you pulled a gun. That is the point of this thread, any fight were you have a gun on you, is now a gun fight.

Wife and kids, me+gun, equals a situation where I am looking out for mine, I'm not a cop, search the threads and you will come up with plenty of stories of how intervening went wrong, and right, but I will not endanger my family, I will call the cops and hope they arrive in time. If the situation endangers my family or me, I will respond.

YOU ARE NOT THE COPS, unless or course you are a cop, but even then plenty of duty cops have been shot and kill "accidentally" by their on duty buddies. What makes you think a CCW, or just armed citizen will fare any better?

I am definately not a cop nor do I pretend to be. I am a grown man that saw a woman and her children being attacked. I don't think that makes me a wanna be cop or someone with a shepheard mentality. I just think that right is right and stopping that man from carjacking that woman was the right thing to do. Are you saying that in the same situation you would have allowed this man to pull her from her vehicle and drive away with her children?

I would like to add that I am not trying to argue with anyone and welcome a polite, openminded discussion on the subject.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Right, I'm not arguing with you, notice the situation where I said I would definitely NOT engage in intervention, just pointing out that when you interject, you are at risk, I am not willing to put those I love at risk, that is why I do what I do, to keep them safe. If I'm by myself, then I probably would do what you did. And many here will be willing to point out how stupid that is.

 

[Jbabbler]

I can't say what I would have done had my wife and kids been with me. That is an element that was not present in my situation. In truth, my wife probably would have told me to "go help that poor woman". It all happened to fast to really think too much about it though.

I was carrying at the time and was wearing it in a Tagua Quick Draw strong-side at 3:30ish. I never drew the gun but knew that it was there should the need arise. It didn't. Just because I had it, didn't mean i had to use it.

 

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

Discussions like these always bring back something my old man drove into my head when I was young.

Just because you can, doesn't mean, you should.

Carrying a weapon has it's own responsibilities, unholstering it escalates those responsibilities, and it you fire it, you own that bullet and any damage that it does forever.

Personally, this is how I handle those responsibilities. If I have to ponder whether it's a serious enough situation, it isn't. I have faith enough in myself and my decision making that should that situation arise, I won't be asking myself...should I?

 

[NMGonzo]

I have intervened.

Long ago, and far away.

Won't do it in this country unless I can make a clear and anonymous escape.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I wonder sometimes what some people would say if they ended up having a chance to intervene, didn't, and then someone died. Would watching someone die in front of you change your mind? You hear those stories about a girl getting raped or stabbed in front of a bunch of bystanders, or that recent news story of that young teenager who got gang-raped in front of a crowd at a school dance. Does watching that happen and living your life knowing you just stood and gazed as an innocent person's life is ruined or ended in front of you have any sort of effect on your psyche? Maybe intervening might not be the most tactically or legally sound decision. Maybe it is. I don't know, I'm just postulating here. But maybe humanity and having a conscience isn't the most logical thing either. Maybe your dreams for the rest of your life don't really care that you made the cold, hard, and legally sound decision to just watch. Who knows.

 

[mljdeckard]

None of us are saying we wouldn't do anything. We are saying it's a bad idea to start shooting people when you walk into a situation in which you don't fully understand the circumstances.

And jscott, you are so verbose I'm not sure you know for sure what you think. I have good advice I paid for. I'm not dropping it for free advice from the internet.

 

[psyopspec]

I wonder sometimes what some people would say if they ended up having a chance to intervene, didn't, and then someone died. Would watching someone die in front of you change your mind?

For an adult, male or female, young or old, they have just as much right as you or I to get a CCW, to own and train with a gun, and to choose where they live and with whom they associate. They are the ultimate owners of the culmination of their decisions, just as I am of mine and you are the one who bears the price of your decisions, good or bad.

That said, per my post above I would still get involved, but only for cases of death, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping. And then, only after circumstances were obvious and police had been alerted. Watching someone getting physically abused does not fit that criteria. Consider the outcomes of my post above: I go to jail, they go to jail, the "victim" testifies aginst me and my friend saying that we were the aggressors, and in the end she's still with her sub-human boyfriend. End result - bad for me and my friend, no change for the "victim" or her aggressor.

 

[sidheshooter]

That said, per my post above I would still get involved, but only for cases of death, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping. And then, only after circumstances were obvious and police had been alerted. Watching someone getting physically abused does not fit that criteria. Consider the outcomes of my post above: I go to jail, they go to jail, the "victim" testifies aginst me and my friend saying that we were the aggressors, and in the end she's still with her sub-human boyfriend. End result - bad for me and my friend, no change for the "victim" or her aggressor.

I'm with psyopspec's comments on this, as well.

It has to be *really* obvious what is going on for me to invoke the legal right to step into another's stead.

I'd add that either Frank Drebin's posted carjacking situation, or an obvious gang-rape fits the bill, but it probably has to be about that blatant. It's not about being unwilling to help; it's about being able to discern when that help is really useful...

 

[ezypikns]

I applaud your actions, Sir.

I made the decision to body check him into the side of the van then detained him until police could arrive.

I hope I would have the presence of mind to do the same.

I believe what's being commented on here is that so many people who carry see their weapon as the ONLY solution to the problem at hand.

As you demonstrated yourself, that is not always the case.

We recall the saying: "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

 

[Gryffydd]

I have good advice I paid for. I'm not dropping it for free advice from the internet.

He gave no advice on how to act. He simply commented on the technicalities as they'd affect the aftermath.