Does it really matter in this case?

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Nushif

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I was reloading again today and would consider myself a very, very average shooter when it comes to consumption, personally. So this is where my sudden insight comes from.

I've been reading around this section for a while now and I find the results people get with these very precise measurements and their technical expertise on the press itself quite simply amazing.
But I find myself utterly un- ... I don't know. Let me explain. When someone shows me a true race gun and points out how tight it is, the .0137 pound trigger that corresponds with the minimum pull of their third join on the left pinkie and the scope that has a focus point set to exactly their shooting glasses adjust sight point, etc I simply look at it, say "Cool." and walk off.
Not because I don't find it nice, but because I don't get it. Maybe it's my mediocre shooting skill or my objective when ti comes to shooting, or my approach o shooting, but I don't envision myself ever becoming such a precision shooter that these things matter. I simply have no interest in what a gun like that is made for.

the same goes for my press. I have a Lee press. It is a turret press ... it can be a progressive, but I took that part out at assembly ... it throws powder into the brass cases I clean in my vibratory tumbler whose brand I don't even know and I found I use the same .46 volume of powder whether I buy HS-6 or Bullseye. I pour powder in the top, insert a 115 grain 9mm bullet and uh ... yeah. That's about it. No clue how many rounds I've reloaded, but it's been a bunch(tm).

What I'm getting at is this:
I consider myself the average consumer, right? So why are we sitting here advising noobs on which press to buy based on the "tightness of the fit" of the press or whether they can load target ammunition out to 1 bazillion yards and whether when the plunger thingie comes up the friction meter tops out at no more than .57854 newtons.

Much like most modern firearms, modern bullet presses work in most hands. Until someone really reaches a level where they can truly appreciate the difference in a Model 80 or Model 70 1911 ... I think a Springfield will suffice, no?

I've found in my brief forays into teaching a lot of my own knowledge has to be tempered with what the user needs. Little Timmy in middle school doesn't need to know the denaturing process of proteins in the heating of organic matter. He needs to know that a fever burns viruses, but can burn you out, too.

Just a thought. I know there's a vast repertoire of knowledge here, but I think for true beginners advice, two things should rule the field:
Try it out.
Get an entry level <gun, press or gadget here>.

Your thoughts?
 
That's why I try not to get into brand names with newbies, but rather try to help them narrow down their search based on their 'want to reload' list.
 
I try to steer newbies into buying a good heavy duty press right off the bat.

If he continues to reload, it will last a lifetime, and be precise from the get-go.
As his skills and calibers progress, he will already be equipped to handle it.

I could recommend a Lee Reloader for $29.95, but I already know he will be unsatisfied and have to go back and spend more money on a bigger stronger press sooner or later anyway.

So in the end, which ends up costing more, a cheap press now, and a good big press later?
Or a good big press to start with?

And in the meantime, which one has enough room for you to get your hand and a rifle case in the press frame opening at the same time??

rc
 
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I only recommend what I know to work. I've wasted a bunch of money on garbage that was recommended by others that either didn't work or was so, shoddy, complicated or convoluted to be of much use.

I'm self taught as well and had to learn things the hard way. Pretty much any advice given over the net has to be taken with a grain of salt.

As far as high precision instruments designed for folks who want to spend $500 to reduce their groups by ..0001 I don't really get it either. Some folks are just average Joe's and some are gadget heads. It's best to do your reseach from a varety of sources before plunking down hard earned money.

YMMV
 
Nushif, I actually tend to almost completely agree with you -- and rcmodel at the same time. :neener:

When I was younger, I knew the specs and the minutia of every gun, kind of ammo, type of reloading press, etc., etc, and I was convinced of how superior everything about my endeavors would be because I knew enough to choose the most superior of everything. And then I grew up and slowly began to understand that in 90% of life's trials, I and my skills would be the limiting factor, not my equipment, and as a total newbie to a field, that percentage would be something closer to 100%.

And, I also discovered that "good enough," often actually IS. The law of diminishing returns kicks in at a different point for each person, of course, but that's usually at a much earlier point than most of us would admit.

That means when someone asks, "I want to start deer hunting, should I buy a Remington 700 in .300 Ultra Mag, or a Winchester 70 in .300 WSSM?" I tend to answer, spend $300 on a used Marlin 336 and dump the other $700+ you'd have spent into ammo and practice time to make you a better field shot.

Or when someone asks which high-speed parts they should buy for their new Glock so they can excel in IDPA or USPSA, I'll tell them not to change anything until they've put 10,000 rounds through it. Then they'll know enough to know what is actually holding them back and what's just fluff.

We all have opinions and most of them are hard-won and perfectly valid. But most newbies jumping into a site like this are struggling to process some small portion of the torrent of info they see/read/hear. What they really need is experience.

Helping them pick out something solid, that isn't so frustratingly slow on one end, or complicated and expensive on the other, that it drives them away is really important. But exactly what they choose is probably less important than that they get out there and try it.
 
There is a way for most everyone to particpate in this hobby of reloading at all budget, need, interest and anal-retention levels. lol

If just spending the most to brag about owning it REALLY mattered, all those Dillon folk should be ashamed that they were too cheap and short-sighted to buy a Camdex. (what REAL MANLY MEN use)...LOL

I took my realistic ammo needs and my real wallet and found a product that is a great fit to both. It is right for ME. Everyone else gets to find what's right for them and buy it with their money.
 
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At least they have this forum to steer them in some direction. When I started all I had were a couple of books and a Dillon catalog that I picked up from a LGS. I had no clue what I was getting into and had I known what I know now I would have purchased a RCBS Rock Chucker instead of the Dillon 550. Not that the Dillon isn't any good, it is great for reloading handgun ammo. Problem is, I load primarily for rifles and very seldom for handguns. I wish someone would have told me buy the Rock Chucker first (I now have 2 mounted about 3 feet apart on my reloading bench) as it would have saved me a lot of money that I could have used for buying other tools and dies. I tried loading rifle ammo on the Dillon and found it not that accurate at dropping precise loads. I now use an RCBS powder dispenser and trickler to get the exact weight for each load. I will never shoot competition again (old eyes) but I still hunt with the ammo I load so I want it to be the best I can make. No different to me than tying flies or woodworking, I want to be proud of what I make or why bother?
 
I'll have to agree with RC...

You can move dirt with a shovel ... if you really want to move dirt ... get a bulldozer!

I started with a RCBS Rockchucker(Caterpillar)... used some Dodges and Chevys along the way.... wound up with a Forster(Cadillac)!

Just my opinion....along with 42 yrs of experimentation...

Jimmy K

PS ... I've operated some Cat, IH and JD dozers too...
 
Nushif,

I don't. I'm with both Sam and rcmodel on this one.


I usually recommend Lee's Single Stage Anniversary Press Kit to any new handloader. It's got what anyone needs to begin, and the press is good enough to last a lifetime. I don't recommend a progressive to begin with unless I can show the fellow how to set it up and use it, in person.

There are things that we experienced loaders like to have to make life easier, especially if we're loading in volume or for precision. But it's not necessary to start, and even I didn't get some of the tools I use often until I had been in the hobby for a few years.


Opinions on the internet vary, just like anywhere else in life. Always take what you get recommended to you with a grain of salt.
 
If you go with the top line equipment to load ultra precise ammo, then go shoot it in a war souvenir 1911, you won't see much accuracy. Some of those the slide will bounce side-to-side with a shake of the grips!:scrutiny:

On the other hand, if you go with a race gun set up by someone who knows what they're doing, then feed it ammo made on a sloppy old press, you'd be lucky if it even fired that ammo. To say nothing of good groups.

Most stay somewhere in the middle with off the shelf modern guns and good new loaders by a reputable company. Some won't touch a progressive, they're afraid because some dope told them they don't load accurate ammo.

I'm a tool head, I'll admit it, I like lots of cool tools! Do I need counseling? Others can get by with basic tools, they have to be trained for every step, there's no natural mechanical ability for them. They don't even know, lefty loosy, righty tighty!:fire:
 
JimKirk said:
You can move dirt with a shovel ... if you really want to move dirt ... get a bulldozer!
Click to expand...
I've been digging footers with a shovel. It is a pain in the hands, back, & everywhere else. I even bought a backhoe but to poor to get it home at the moment. I still need to get my footers done so I work with what I can afford.

I think it is great to put information out there. The more you know the better decision you can make. I see a lot of people say "it has to be done this way" or "you can't do that" when it isn't true but it is helpful to most for someone to say "this is a better way" & "why it works".
 
I think we web gurus often do noobs a disservice by suggesting they start with what we old hands with well defined needs prefer.

I prefer to make noob suggestions based on what the guy says he wants to accomplish rather than try to have him replicate what I need; he really may need somethings I do not. And, it seems much more rational to suggest a lower cost start-up kit that he can learn on and then, after a bit of personal experience, he can easily choose what, if anything, more he may like.

I can't see any of us tossing a low cost press into the trash after buying a Dillon 1050 or a Forster CoAx, there will always be plenty of uses for a simple press on anyone's bench so it WON'T be a waste.

I wonder how many new guys get cold feet after adding the start-up costs some hard-core enthusists suggest, especially so when he may NEVER actually need the more costly stuff. After all, only a small percentage of reloaders ever get as deep into it as a few of us do!
 
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I usually recommend a Lee Classic Turret press.
I think it's a great beginner press & won't go to waste if they decide to upgrade later on.

Sure you can find a cheaper set-up (like the whack-a-mole thing from Lee)
But I think it's the perfect blend of quality & speed.

Later on, once they get the hang of reloading if they want a Dillon 650 or 1050, great, but those (at least to me) are NOT starter presses.
 
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