double feed clearance

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themachine

themachine

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Hey folks just wondering how y'all train to deal with a double feed clearance in a combative situation. I'm not looking to change my method but I'd like to hear different schools of thought on it.

I recently attended a training where the instructor made the operators strip the mag first then cycle the slide when dealing with a double feed.

Here are the steps that I've been trained in with a double feed.

On first FTF, give it a tap/rack... on the second:
- Lock slide to the rear
- Drop/Strip mag (store it away from you other fresh mags)
- Cycle slide 3 times
- Insert new mag
- Rack and get back in the fight

I've learned that although not all the time, many times with a double feed you can't strip the mag first because in addition to the jam the pressure of the slide among other variables can make it impossible to strip the mag.

The instructor let me use my method on the range because he is comfortable with my previous training. However a few others on the range couldn't not get their mag out when doing the clearance drill until they racked the slide first. After that, the mag released very easily.

Obviously a jam would suck in a firefight but if it happens it's good to have training on how to clear it and get back in the fight as quick as possible.

Interested to hear your thoughts!
 
I do it the way you were trained as well (along with canting the weapon so the ejection port is facing the ground). With the slide putting pressure on the double feed it would seem to make stripping the mag out harder, although if in a defense scenario maybe the trainer figures you won't have the fine motor skills to lock the slide to the rear.
 
Some of my instructors told me that they had seen cases where someone tried to strip the mag first and ended up ripping their finger nails of trying to yank it out.
 
Lock it open first, and the magazine should come out easier. Also, once the magazine is out, with the gun open, the obstruction usually falls out as well. Cycling the action is only necessary if you have a failure to extract.
 
I've found that I can strip the magazines in my Glock duty weapon without first locking the slide to the rear... Press magazine release, yank magazine, and it comes out just fine. I've never damaged my magazines in the process, and I've done this type of double-feed clearance in quarterly qualifications for years.

Also, I don't try to "save" the magazine in a double feed clearance... I yank it, dump it, and go to a new magazine. If this scenario ever happened to you in the middle of an actual gunfight, you're already going to be well behind the ball. Save time and ditch the magazine. Plus, you don't know if your magazine is what caused the double feed in the first place!
 
"I've found that I can strip the magazines in my Glock duty weapon without first locking the slide to the rear..."

I've noticed through various trainings that it's easier to do it in this order with Glocks (which is my primary duty weapon) but others were in a pickle with other guns when trying to strip the mag first. I've just gotten into the habit of locking the slide first. If I'm ever using a weapon other than a glock then this will carry over.

"Save time and ditch the magazine. Plus, you don't know if your magazine is what caused the double feed in the first place!"

This is true. The mag very well may have been the issue. A few of my senior instructors made the point that in the worst case senario, if you emptied the rest of your mags it's best to have some rounds left in a potentially bad magazine than none at all. While this scenario may not be that likely I figure it's best to get in the habit of keeping it.

In training I store the mag like I do in a tactical reload, somewhere on my person away from my full mags (back pocket, etc...).
 
I learned to strip out the mag (and drop it) then cycle it to clear the obstruction.

The point of this is to get the gun operational as fast as possible..you're in a gun fight!

I think going to the trouble to lock the slide back and hold on to the mag are just extra steps which will slow down getting the gun operational again. My opinion.

I learned this method on a S&W 4006, (and used it on the range with real double feeds a few times) and have also done this with the M&P .40 I carry now.
I've not had any issues with getting the mag out during a double feed.

If you carry a gun that is very difficult to remove the mag during a double feed I guess you should try to cycle it first, HOWEVER if your mag is causing the double feed AND it is still in the gun this may not clear the gun.
When the mag is out of the gun before it is cycled the cartridges can go out the ejection port OR drop down the mag well, making it easier to clear.

It’s a good thing to practice to know how your gun will behave.
 
mljdeckard said:
You still don't know if you might need that mag later. I don't ever want to damage one if I don't need to.
Click to expand...

In my experience with the "strip the mag" method of double feed clearances (at least with Glocks) you won't damage the magazine by doing so. Whether or not you choose to retain that magazine is another issue entirely. As "Themachine" pointed out in his post, having some ammo in a bad magazine might be better than no ammo at all, thus comes the argument for doing a "tactical reload" and saving that magazine. I personally go for the "speed reload" for this malfunction, and ditch the original magazine. Really, that's a matter of personal preference, and might even be dictated by the situation you are in at the time, or expect to encounter. There isn't necessarily a right and wrong way to do this when it comes down to choosing a tactical vs speed style reload.

And, again, with a Glock (I can't speak for others) you won't damage the magazine by simply stripping it from the gun and discarding it on the ground. I honestly couldn't even count how many times I've done that drill with my magazines, but it is surely in the hundreds.

Of course it is fair to mention that I'm speaking of this from the perspective of wearing a duty rig, where I already have two spare magazines easily available to me. Many of us only carry one magazine when we're CCWing, and that really doesn't allow for the option of discarding a potentially bad magazine in favor of another one. So, once again, your individual style of deployment may dictate how you address this type of malfunction! In other words, if I'm off-duty and carrying concealed with my only magazine being the one in the gun, you can be sure that I'm not going to be inclined to ditch that magazine.

Diggers said:
I learned to strip out the mag (and drop it) then cycle it to clear the obstruction.

The point of this is to get the gun operational as fast as possible..you're in a gun fight!

I think going to the trouble to lock the slide back and hold on to the mag are just extra steps which will slow down getting the gun operational again. My opinion.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much how I see it too. By the time you've had a real life double feed, you can already positively establish the following facts:

1) You ARE in a gunfight, and have already fired at least one round.

2) Your gun is currently not operational. Presumably your opponent's weapon of choice is still functional, unless you were VERY lucky, or they were already neutralized.

3) You are WAY behind the ball simply because you've had any kind of malfunction.

I weigh those odds to say that speed is much more important than ammo managment if that specific scenario plays out. But, I know plenty of competent officers who choose to do things a different way. To each their own, but I certainly think it is worth thinking about the pros/cons of each method :)
 
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I think going to the trouble to lock the slide back and hold on to the mag are just extra steps which will slow down getting the gun operational again. My opinion.
Click to expand...

Having timed both for myself, I'm quicker clearing these when I lock it open first.
 
Training is key no matter which way you choose to approach this (obviously). Like I said I'm pretty comfortable with my method but I respect different schools of thought on this.

Another aspect to dealing with jam clearances is the simple but critical importance of getting off the force line (which you should be doing anyway). It would be bad enough to have a jam in a gun fight so being a moving target as opposed to a static target is important. If cover is available, this would be a good time to utilize it while clearing that jam.


You fight like you train.
 
Here are the steps that I've been trained in with a double feed.

On first FTF, give it a tap/rack... on the second:
- Lock slide to the rear
- Drop/Strip mag (store it away from you other fresh mags)
- Cycle slide 3 times
- Insert new mag
- Rack and get back in the fight
Click to expand...

Why would you want to tap/rack on the first double feed?

We are trained to lock the slide back, drop the mag, rack several times, insert a loaded mag, and rack one last time.
 
I think going to the trouble to lock the slide back and hold on to the mag are just extra steps which will slow down getting the gun operational again. My opinion.
Click to expand...

I have been told that in the panic of a firefight, you lose your fine motor skills. A doublefeed locks the magazine in the mag well. You may not have the ability to pry it free. Locking the slide to the rear relieves alot of the pressure on the magazine and it is easier to remove from the gun.
 
"Why would you want to tap/rack on the first double feed?"

I should clarify: On a FTF perform a tap/rack. If I immediately know it's a double feed I would lock the slide first then so on, etc...

If it's simply a FTF because of a bad round, etc. then a simple tap/rack will get you back in the fight. In a stressful situation you may not know you have a double feed at first but you'd figure it out once an initial tap/rack didn't work. Hence the first tap/rack.

"We are trained to lock the slide back, drop the mag, rack several times, insert a loaded mag, and rack one last time."

Same here. Did I explain that well enough or is that more confusing?
 
You fight like you train.
Click to expand...

One would hope, but sometimes you do weird things under stress. Once, at a major match, I had a failure to extract. After I locked it open and pulled the magazine, I noticed the brass still in there, so in that split second I decided not to cycle the action like I have done dozens of times in training.

Instead, I racked the gun on the door jam I was pieing around to clear it. Good thing I didn't have adjustable sights. My rear sight made a divot in the wood, but it cleared the gun quickly and I didn't lose too much time.
 
Never blindly tap rack bang. Allways check first. In 1/10th of a second you can determine:
-Is the slide closed? Tap, rack bang.
-Is slide allmost closed? Wack slide into battery and shoot.
-Stovepipe? Wipe it off.
-Is there a nasty tangle of brass in there? Lock, strip, rack, reload.

If you rip out the mag before you lock the slide back, your doublefeed can turn into a horrendous jam, that you cannot clear in just seconds.
 
The technique I use is non-diagnostic. Whenever I experience a failure to fire (misfire) I simply perform a progressive series of actions that allow me to quickly clear virtually any stoppage I might encounter.

  1. "Misfire"
  2. Perform: Tap, Roll & Rack
  3. Recover (assess situation, determine if I need to shoot)
  4. "Misfire"
  5. Adapt to situation, if necessary (move, seek cover, etc.)
  6. When situation permits perform: Combat Reload
  7. If, while attempting to perform the Combat Reload, the fresh magazine cannot be inserted into the magazine well:
    • Immediately stow fresh magazine between ring and pinky fingers of friring hand
    • Lock open slide
    • Remove "depleted" magazine from pistol
    • Roll & Rack, Rack, Rack
    • Complete the Combat Reload
  8. Recover

I can perform the actions in low and no light conditions without need to see and diagnose the stoppage. I can perform the actions on the move. I don't have to take my eyes off my adversary.

I perform a Combat Reload first (if Tap, Roll & Rack fails to get the gun running) because I'm more likely to have shot the pistol dry than to experience a stoppage caused by a failure to extract. The Combat Reload allows me to resume fighting quicker, if that's all that's needed.
 
918v

Humm, well perhaps it depends on the gun, BUT as I've said, I have not had ANY issue pulling the mag out in a double feed situation.

It does NOT get locked into place in the 4006 or M&P I've trained with, and it seems it doesn't happen with glocks also.

I like clearing the mag out and giving the brass thats stuck in there more space to fall out of the gun.....makes sense to me.

Also locking the slide back takes more fine motor skills than just yanking a mag out.
 
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Its about the same.

Pressing the magazine release takes the same fine skill and pressing the slide catch up.
Gripping the magazine floorplate takes the same fine skill and grasping the slide to pull it rearward.
 
I treat all failures the same. They are resolved with two drills, provided the first does not clear it I move on to the second drill.

1) Traditional TRB

2) rotate pistol to your right side, ejection port facing the ground.
Lock slide to rear.
Strip out magazine.
Cycle action several times.
Reload with a fresh magazine.
 
I just rip the magazine out, rack the slide until it clears, then reload (tap), rack, and bang...
 
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