Dropping The Hammer.....

[Dave McCracken]

A couple current threads include stuff about whether one should store a defensive pump shotgun with the action locked closed or the hammer down on an empty chamber.

With break action guns, conventional wisdom doth decree dropping the hammers. Purdeyites and others of that ilk murmur that leaving leaf springs under tension is Cursed and an Abomination. Snap caps are devices that aid hammer down storage.

Pop liked hammer down. I agree, but do not regard it as essential with 870s.

Here's why...

This morning, I took my oldest 870 to the range before shooting The Geezer League.

It has been kept with empty chamber, full mag -1, action locked shut and safety on pretty much all the time since I made it a dedicated "Serious" shotgun back around 1980. It has been as reliable as a crowbar. Maybe as many as 15K rounds have been through it since it became mine during Xmas, 1959. Most of those were slugs,buck or goose loads.

So anyway, I loaded up a few rounds and shot them into the ground at Range 2. The 55 year old, well worn 870 worked perfectly.

I'll give it a cleaning tonight, load it back up and cherish it as I put it back into ready storage.

The Defense rests.....

 

[oletymer]

Only a few modern break action shotguns use leaf springs. Perazzi and SKB are the most popular that still use them. Brownings and Berettas etc use coil springs. My 30 year old BT99 has never had the hammer dropped and has over 100,000 rounds through it without a failure. I am having it rebuilt this year as the locking lever is straight back now, not because it has ever had a failure to fire.

 

[sm]

Dave great topic and I agree.

On my Citoris, I'd break them down, snap the trigger, bump recoil pad, snap the other bbl and put in its Browning case.

On Repeaters, pump or semis, "many" were kept with empty chambers, granted the pump just needed to operate the forearm, still running a bolt on a semi is not hard.

Now I admit, and for MY reasons and MY situations , having these serous shotguns in a SAFE place...I kept some in what I call "snick and shoot" mode.

Like you I have taken the dusty, serious gun out to shoot. I mean I shot a lot of guns just like "that one, or this one" , still shooting the actual gun itself was needed.

Yes a 870, 1300, or 37 will fire just fine , so will a 1100, SX1, or Beretta 303.
Some were hammer down, some were snick and shoot.

Always been one to know what a gun did in a certain number of rds - as another thread recently got into about cleaning. Shoot whatever gun to know it works and with what ammo for reliablity and ammo preference. Know the nuances of action, and what to look for in inspection, and maintenance.

For ME, on serious firearms, after I do shoot them, and I do the inspect and maintain, and especially on a take down complete and go thru one, I always shot it, shotguns get a mag tube or two run thru them. Then the shotgun is loaded and put in hammer down, exterior wiped off , and put where it stays. The few that are snick and shoot, get a rd chambered, safety on of course.

Serious to me, it has to work , therefore I shoot to know. I do not do this piddlin' and fiddlin' , I do not do this "cleaning a clean gun", I am not bolting on and taking off curb feelers. Serious guns are just that, serious. I have to test and know the gun will work. When done - I leave it alone.

You checked it once already; now leave it alone. Sean Connery's character in the Untouchables

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks for the responses,folks.

Ole, I hope you don't think that's a record number of rounds. Just getting broken in, right?

Steve, this one doesn't get much range time anymore. Like you said, life saving equipment has to be checked and known to be working....

 

[sm]

Dave,

I think am going "backwards" on this firearm stuff. Current handiest serious shotgun is bone stock NEF Youth Model 20 ga single shot. Hammer down, action open, shell chambered. Has its own recliner...

I mean it does not get anymore Simple and Safe than that. Now I did "cutomize it", added two strips of black UL approved Electrical Tape to assist the Koplin butt cutt in staying put.

Bone stock, factory fixed modified barrel that throws some THE best pellet & slug groups I have ever "tossed", PC, not expensive, and hopefully never get used. If so, jury is going to see a bone stock youth gun, and if it rots in the evidence room who cares?

Little bugger is easy to manuever, and REAL safe in administrative drills. Sometimes it wants to ride in the truck, nobody notices me toting it to truck, it ain't big enough to get noticed, folks just saw a baseball bat carrier, or still wondering what in world that tote made from a blue jean leg [33" inseam"] is for. "Stilson wrench"....well maybe it is the other leg that has that in it...I forget.

Likes Brenneke's too...

 

[226]

I agree with everyone so far. For a HD shotgun you need to be thoroughly familiar with it’s configuration and what manipulation is required to reach a ready to fire state.

All of my 870s have the same configuration every time, all the time. Final configuration, step by step, is:

1. verify empty chamber (visually and physically)
2. set safety to fire and drop the hammer
3. load magazine

Why leave the safety on fire with the hammer down on a known empty chamber? One reason is the ease in doing a chamber check. With the hammer down I can pick up any 870 and the forearm slides back nicely to double-check your chamber status. The other reason is the steps required to load and shoot after picking her up.

Have posted this article before and it brings up some good points.

Sleep effects on par with drinking beer

Professionals like doctors and pilots, who are suddenly woken up from deep sleep, need to take some time before taking major decisions, a new study has concluded.

Researchers have found that people are as woozy when they wake up as they are after drinking several beers, 'nature' magazine said.

Sleep researchers have long been interested in the symptoms of sluggishness and disorientation that people experience after awakening, which they call sleep inertia.

So you wake up suddenly to the sound of breaking glass, the dog barking, or just a sense of something amiss. You need to perform several crucial thought processes at the same time and having to fuddle with small motor movements could be challenging to say the least.

This is what I do. It may or may not work for anyone else. If you are familiar with your system and can manipulate with your eyes closed then it may not be a good idea to change your methods at this point. Then there are the new folks to the sport or to firearms in general. Folks don’t always know or follow the four rules. Someone could very well purchase their shotgun at the local big 5 and then post on THR about what ammo to use or what state to leave their shotgun in. I can see the reason for sticking to more safe methods of training.

...

 

[Dave McCracken]

sm, I've known a guy or two that took that approach. One jack pine savage I knew could get off two effective shots on a covey flush with a Winchester 37 single shot.

And, part of the Art is the fact that an inexpensive barrel may produce, with the right ammo, excellent patterns. Even Stan Baker mentioned this.

226, in 1971 or so in Venice Ca, I repelled boarders with an 870 without a shot being fired. It happened at zero dark 30 and I was less than 30 seconds out of a deep sleep. That is the same 870 mentioned here, and was kept ready the same way.

HD guns here are that 870 and DA revolvers. Easy, ingrained MOAs done hundreds of time.

I get ragged a bit about "Chops". If one hasn't developed "Chops" with a weapon, one is severely disadvantaged during crises.....

Dismounting from pulpit....

 

[oletymer]

Dave, no that is not a record, but I have seven trap guns and two others are near that range and are treated the same. Overall close to 500,000 rounds through these guns and never snap on an empty chamer, snap caps or no.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, Oletymer. That's more evidence supporting this position.

For all the views, I expected more input. Oh, well....

 

[BozemanMT]

Being the post whore that I am..........

SxS's and O/U's get the snap cap and hammer down treatment when being put into the safe. cuz they are spendy and nice and well, it can't hurt.

Defensive guns (two shotties, 2 glocks)
The shotguns are cruiser ready. Hammer down, empty chamber, magazine loaded. snick snick and she's a going. (and ok, I"m totally paranoid, I check the chamber, check again, walk outside, check again point at the woodpile, then pull the trigger, scares the **** out of me pulling the trigger inside the house, known empty chamber or not).
Glocks are fully loaded, one in teh chamber.

I NEVER use safeties on just about anything except 1911's when holstering. Your safety is in your head. Nothing worse than trying to grab a gun in haste to actually use it and fumbling for the safety. I'ts always loaded until you know it isn't, so, why mess with the safety (no, i don't use the parking brake on manual sticks either, you don't need it)

There, how's that for opinions.

 

[oletymer]

Bozeman, what are shotties? Are they guns designed for kids? I have only owned shotguns.

 

[BozemanMT]

Bozeman, what are shotties? Are they guns designed for kids? I have only owned shotguns.

You're kidding right?
Ohhhhh, it's supposed to be sarcasm
Jeeez, lighten up Francis.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Now, now, guys.....

Boze, I use the safeties from long practice. An 870 kept action locked closed, safety on,mag loaded, chamber empty is awfully hard for a child, irresponsible adults or ignorami to operate at all. Cogniscienti who practice can make ready to fire PDQ.

However, mine's not the only good approach, it's just the way I prefer based on my experience, environment and training. YMMV.

My GM is carried cocked and locked, but not stored that way.

 

[tango3065]

So yor saying my I can leave my 3 870's cocked for 20 years or so with no worries about spring wear? That would be great because they are well worn and you have to slide the forearm up a little to load them.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Yes. However, it's a good idea to check any firearm kept ready long term by taking it out every so often and shooting it. Use the ammo that was in it. Clean, relaod with fresh and store some more.

Here's where multiples of a firearm pay off. I use other 870s maybe an average of 150 rounds a week, while my HD tool has no further wear.

 

[mswestfall]

I have a 101 that was cocked for over about 30 years. It still goes off when I pull the trigger.

Go figure?