Durability for the long term

[Fat Boy]

In my childhood (45 years ago, at least) people bought many items with a life expectancy of several years; televisions, cars, etc. If it broke or failed, a repairman was sought out; repairs were made, the item continued usable service. I have handled and fired guns made around the turning of the previous century that still seemed solid, and were in what I considered excellent condition. My first handgun, a s&w model 10 was purchased with this same thought process many years ago and never gave any indication of problems.

Today, I am struggling to understand where the quality control and "built to last" concepts have gone when it comes to guns. I have read many laments on this and other forums describing failed guns, many of which were of newer manufacture, as opposed to older. I understand the fact that an occasional "lemon" will get by QC, and believed that some of what I was reading was exaggerated, or a "one-off" experience. My thinking ran with the philosophy of "getting what you pay for", e.g. pay higher prices, and you will typically get better quality. However, I recently handled and shot a Para 9mm "hawg" (1911, hi-capacity) Out of 80 rounds fired I had at least 5-6 failures-to-eject, and the gun will not lock open after the last shot in the magazine.

I inquired of a knowledgeable friend who advised me that Para's have quality issues...my prior understanding was that Para's were supposed to top quality firearms; at least they seem to be priced as such...

I would like to add a compact, semi-auto to my collection, in 9mm, .40s&w or 45acp. I don't want to add a gun with "known quality issues"...what would be some of my best alternatives?

(BTW, the first portion of this post was a bit of a rant, but if you want to comment on it, I would love to hear your thoughts...)


Thanks!

 

[Raptorq7r13]

Your question of what happened to "built to last" concepts, I think that has been pondered by many for countless sleepless nights; with no results I'm afraid...

Are you looking for a reliable 1911, or just any reliable pistol? Glock of course, are considered the most reliable and nearly indestructible. I have a rather biased opinion of Beretta. I love 'em!

I'm told by a local dealer whom I trust (but have no other credentials to back up) that Para often tries to find the cheapest steel to use in their firearms, in order to be the lowest bidder. Sometimes they get a good batch of steel, sometimes bad. For a well built 1911, expect to spend $1000+. None of the cheaper ones ever seem to get good or consistently good reviews.

 

[JTQ]

There are still WW I, 1911's out there being used.

I have a 27 year old S&W 686, a 23 year old S&W 4506, and an 18 year old Colt 1911 that I'm sure my grandkids will be able to shoot. They are practically not even broken in yet. Most quality firearms, from quality manufactures should easily last your life time.

 

[21bubba]

You're not going to get a reliable answer to your question because of human nature. Example: I like paras and believe Glocks to be highly overrated. Am i right or wrong? There are good and bad of everything. One or a small group of people's opinions is always to be taken with a grain of salt.

I do believe that the quality of the metal in newer guns is not as good as it once was. Wonder if the day will ever come when people talk about how the plastic was better or worse in older polymer guns?

 

[GoodKat]

CZ 75 D PCR Compact
CZ's are one of the most widely issued line of handguns in the world, and the inherent excellence of their design is evidenced by the large number of copies available.

 

[SuperNaut]

Clean and lube your mag. Para ships their hi-cap mags dry and sticky.

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

I find the "new guns are made of inferior steel comment" spurious at best. The steel quality hasn't really changed, what has changed is the cost of human labor. In 1911 manpower was the cheapest part of the equation, now its the most expensive. Manpower is what is reduced, not quality of materials. The pistols were fit and finish by hand, that's a hallmark of the 1911 design. The older pistols were better because someone spent the time filing and fitting to get them to the point they would work reliably. Bear in mind clearances have progressively tightened over the years as well. I have a 1926 vintage 1911 if you shake it, it sounds like a bucket of bolts, my 2006 colt doesn't make any noise, not even the barrel link. I submit the design of the 1911 is such that it is not made to capitalize on accuracy (after all how accurate can it be when the barrel moves after each shot) but is designed to be supremely reliable.

 

[CDW4ME]

Compare a Glock to a series 70 Colt 45. The Glock will last for thousands of rounds the Colt would too, I'll be generous and say durability is equal.

However, I see the Glock as an improvement for the price; the Colt was / is a premium priced pistol, but for many people it needed improvement out of the box. Needed better sights (more visible), needed a beavertail grip safety (that narrow tang was painful to shoot), and might need throating to feed hollow points. Years ago you purchased a premium pistol and then had to spend more money on it to make it user friendly. The Glock is comfortable to shoot, has useable sights and feeds anything right out of the box.

 

[Zerodefect]

I have found Glocks to be the most reliable.

Part of this is the huge supply of extremely cheap replacement parts. As long as you replace the springs & pins, and keep an eye on the slide lock, a Glock should last a good long time.

If you want reliability you probally need to look at :

Glock
HK
Smithy M&P (some minor teething issues, new gun desighn)
Spriny XD (same teething issues)

Fusion, Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat for 1911's. (Sometimes Colt...I mean "Cult")

Smithy M&P Revolvers
Ruger SR9 (if you can get past a slide made of pot metal)

Para has been having problems for a while now. All the mass produced 1911's are having problems right now. They still haven't learned that real 1911's can not be built by robots. All the CNC in the world deosn't make up for one good gunsmiths time and attention.

Don't jusdge everything by a mass produced 1911, which is probally one of the pickiest types of firearms.

 

[rcmodel]

I had at least 5-6 failures-to-eject, and the gun will not lock open after the last shot in the magazine.

That's a design feature that addresses your concern about the longevity of new guns.

If they won't work right out of the box, it takes much longer to wear them out shooting them.

rc

 

[JAV8000]

+1 for beretta. 92s will last 60,000+ rounds as long as you keep an eye on the locking block and replace every 20,000 or so (sooner if you use +P). Beretta Cougars are extremely robust guns as well. The rotary barrel is inherently stronger than the tilting barrel system. This gun was originally designed for .40, so the 9mm version is really overbuilt, even with the slide cuts (L designation). The Stoeger Cougar is the exact same gun and is NATO certified.

 

[jmr40]

A little history. Our grandfathers used basically the same technology as their fathers and grandfathers. Improvements in many items, not just guns, came slowly. There was little incentive to buy something new because the older items worked just as well if they could be repaired.

Today technology changes so fast that many items are obsolete within a few months. There is no reason to repair. Just toss it. You can replace it with another item that is much improved and for often less expense than repairing the older item.

This mindset has had an effect on all manufactured goods, including guns. Guns can be and are built to last, but fewer people are willing to pay the prices to buy something that will last for generations.

 

[Dr. Fresh]

I actually think guns are one of the few products sold in quantity today that WILL last a lifetime. That is, if you buy a good one.

Seems like other products, from toasters to clocks to just about anything, are not built to last at all.