Eduard Kettner Vierling Help!

[Novisvierling]

Hello all, my names is Jim. I came to posess a treasure through the passing of my late father. I have a one Eduard Kettner koln four barrel made of Krupp steel. The arrangement is as follows two 16ga side by side then .22 hornet slightly below and center then directly below that is a 7x57R all are proofed both black powder and nitro, the gun came with a bunch of old and some not so old ammo along with the words from a dieing man "it's a shooter" . Can anyone help me determine the correct ammo and if I should even consider shooting it?

Thank you in advance Jim

 

[Rail Driver]

I'd shoot it once in awhile and maybe take it hunting once or twice with my boy, then hang it on the wall until I pass it down to him.

 

[Novisvierling]

Thank you Rail driver I am concerned about the new ammo being to hot for the gun?

 

[rcmodel]

Your gun is called a Vierling in Germany where it was made.

If it has nitro proofs, and is chambered in .22 Hornet in one barrel, it is fairly modern and should be safe to shoot with modern ammo.

7x57R means Rimmed, and it is still being made by S&B, Norma, and others in Europe.

The only safety question is the length of the 16 ga shotgun chambers.

If you un-snap the forearm and take the barrels off, there will be chamber markings stamped on the barrels.
If you can find 70mm markings on the shotgun barrels, it has 2 3/4" chambers for modern shells.

If it says 65mm, it is chambered for 2 9/16" shells.
If it says 63.5mm it is chambered for 2 1/2" shells, and that is what you will have to find to safely shoot it.

RST makes low pressure 2.5" loads for older guns like yours too.
http://www.rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htm

rc

 

[Rail Driver]

If it's a worry, by all means have a gunsmith check out the gun. We won't be able to help you on the internet with that one.

I don't know a whole lot about the gun itself, but from what I do know, they were well made and a lot of time and effort was put into the manufacture of those guns. If it's a major concern, I'm sure you can either load some light rounds for it (if you reload) or get someone to do so for you. If not, or if a gunsmith judges it unsafe to shoot, it's a beautiful wall hanger and still a family heirloom.

 

[Novisvierling]

Thank you very much I do know it is chambered 70mm 2 3/4 for sure all the markings are very clear it's just that it seems to have more interference closing up when I put the newer cartridges I got from Hornady? The older ammo I have is either reloaded or original DWM, Or Norma and the actual cartridges have been re-marked or altered to say 7x57R. Some were labled 30 Army and others were 8x57JR kinda makes me nervous the barrel wall thickness is nowhere near that of today's modern pressure riffles .. It almost seems like the new ammo is sized wrong too long maybe and not by much though I sold all my reloading gear years ago "kicking myself in the butt now" I have the specs from Hornady but not sure what the gun actually is?

 

[Novisvierling]

Thank you Rail Driver.

 

[rcmodel]

Some were labled 30 Army and others were 8x57JR

Somebody (a reloader) made cases out of old U.S. GI .30 Krag and 8x57R German cases after the gun was brought back after WWII.
Because they couldn't get real 7x57R ammo back then.

Get the real deal Norma or S&B or whatever and it will fit just fine.

PS: Trying to close the action of ammo that doesn't fit can do damage to the gun.
Like the lawyer said in the O.J. Simpson trial.
"If it doesn't fit, you must quit!" or something like that!

rc

 

[Jim K]

Not only are those old reloads suspect on proper fit, but also on the proper load. Who knows what the reloader stuck in there? You can get 7x57R, so break the piggy bank and buy some. (Note: the terms J, JR and JRS apply only to 8x57, not to 7x57.)

Jim

 

[Novisvierling]

Ok thanks Jim, though I believe I covered that base already maybe it is not clear. I do have ammo cartridges from Hornady I bought it just a few weeks ago and there is a difference between the older loads that clearly say 7x57R with two star like markings and the rimed portion that seats against the actual receiver has a much larger relief or bevel as aposed to the brand new cartridges that have no relief or bevel on the rimed end like as if they were not intended for breach loaded guns it is a tight fit and that extra little bit interferes with the action movement to latch up.... Hope this is clearer. Thanks again Jim

 

[Novisvierling]

Finding a good smith for such weapons is difficult and also concerning especially whith older German guns they tend to break when taken apart .....!

 

[Novisvierling]

Found the problem!!!

The new Hornedy ammunition I purchased was not carefully QC checked and the rime thickness was about .005 over size or too thick and Hornady blaimed the casing manufacturer .... No accountability I guess maybe someday I will get what I give in return... Thanks to all for you help and thanks to Newington gun exchange.

 

[waidmann]

Know that it is Hornet and not one of the 5.6mm Vierling rounds.

BTW Vierling is a quadruplet.

Sounds like you are on your way.

 

[Novisvierling]

Yes very certain it's hornet the barrel stamp says so and if I learn how to post photos I will show it to those that want to view it... Thanks for your input! Looking forward to shooting on Saturday .


Actuly the gun does not say .22hornet it says 5.4mm proofed both black powder and nitro also has grs. 1.25

 

[waidmann]

Likely grams, not grains. One other note at the range you have to allow those thin barrels plenty of cooling time between shots or your point of impact will shift.

 

[Novisvierling]

Thanks for that though I'm told the Krupp steel is also know as fluid and remarkably repeats location? Seems to shoot great. I am very pleased. Jim

 

[waidmann]

Fluss Stahl is fluid steel, as oppossed to laminated or Damscus. Whether Krupp, Cockrill. or Winchester I am not aware of some otherworldly characteristics.

Varmit and sniper barrels are made "heavy" to keep them cooler despite multiple shots. Germanic combination weapons have conversely light thin barrels, hence my comment.