Experience with cheap Turkish bullpups

I loved shooting my SDS Systems BP12, had some issues initially, but they fixed it under warranty paying the shipping both ways, so I was very happy, but they wouldn't tell me what they did to repair it. I ran in pretty hard with "skeet" loads (1 to 1-1/8 oz #7.5 to #9 shot, 2-3/4 shells around 3 Dram Eq) shooting steel plate rack. Problem is it self destructed a bit over 500 rounds post warranty repair. The 1 year warranty had run out and they didn't extend the warranty for the ~6 weeks they had it. I received this reply in regards to getting spare parts to repair it or paying to get it repaired:
We no longer import the M12 so if the part is not listed on the website it cannot be sold either. We have to request warranties from our manufacturer and can only do so if the customer has a receipt that is within warranty. There is nothing I can do.


Josh Horton

Customer Service Manager

P 865-604-6894

[email protected]

[email protected]


https://www.sdsimports.com/

https://www.tisas-us.com/

https://www.tokarevusa.com/





upload_2023-1-17_15-54-24.png

It would be very easy to repair if a replacement "upper" were available, here is where it failed:
fail_crack_closeup.jpg

I liked it so much that when PSA had the Panzer Arms EGX500 for $300, since it took the same magazines, I jumped on it. It is supposed to be an "improved" model:

The EGX500 is part of our Precision Tactical series. Its construction and design are intended for elite and competitive shooters

So far I'm a bit over 400 rounds through it, the only issue is when it gets dirty it doesn't go fully into battery and you get a failure-to-fire without a mark on the primer. Depending on the ammo it needs to be cleaned every ~54-136 rounds. I've been shooting what I can find so it has been a motley assortment of ammo. Some cheap stuff from Walmart has gone over 120 rounds twice now, which is three or four outings for me.

The two position externally adjustable gas regulator is a definite plus. A definite negative is they made it so removing the barrel is a major job, which will be an issue if the bolt needs cleaning beyond what can be done with spray parts cleaner, or something like the firing pin or extractor breaks.

Bottom line if you buy one and it breaks after the warranty runs out (I should be over 1000 rounds before my warranty runs out) you are hosed, as replacement parts seem to be unavailable since every batch imported is a different "model" with few parts in common and they don't seem to import spare parts.

After reading the reddit link, I can't disagree, but my only "jams" were what caused my SDS BP12 to go back for repair, and it never jammed or failed to feed or fire until it broke. My only failures with the EGX500 is when a light load on the "High Velocity" gas setting fails to cycle usually doing one of three things -- empty remains in the chamber, empty "stovepipes", or it barely ejects but doesn't pick up a round from the mag and closes on an empty chamber. With ammo I've not shot before I start with the HV setting and push it in if it fails to cycle. I've been able to use very light 7/8 oz target loads with the regulator pushed in for "extra gas".
 
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I loved shooting my SDS Systems BP12, had some issues initially, but they fixed it under warranty paying the shipping both ways, so I was very happy, but they wouldn't tell me what they did to repair it. I ran in pretty hard with "skeet" loads (1 to 1-1/8 oz #7.5 to #9 shot, 2-3/4 shells around 3 Dram Eq) shooting steel plate rack. Problem is it self destructed a bit over 500 rounds post warranty repair. The 1 year warranty had run out and they didn't extend the warranty for the ~6 weeks they had it. I received this reply in regards to getting spare parts to repair it or paying to get it repaired:


It would be very easy to repair if a replacement "upper" were available, here is where it failed:
View attachment 1128038

I liked it so much that when PSA had the Panzer Arms EGX500 for $300, since it took the same magazines, I jumped on it. It is supposed to be an "improved" model:



So far I'm a bit over 400 rounds through it, the only issue is when it gets dirty it doesn't go fully into battery and you get a failure-to-fire without a mark on the primer. Depending on the ammo it needs to be cleaned every ~54-136 rounds. I've been shooting what I can find so it has been a motley assortment of ammo. Some cheap stuff from Walmart has gone over 120 rounds twice now, which is three or four outings for me.

The two position externally adjustable gas regulator is a definite plus. A definite negative is they made it so removing the barrel is a major job, which will be an issue if the bolt needs cleaning beyond what can be done with spray parts cleaner, or something like the firing pin or extractor breaks.

Bottom line if you buy one and it breaks after the warranty runs out (I should be over 1000 rounds before my warranty runs out) you are hosed, as replacement parts seem to be unavailable since every batch imported is a different "model" with few parts in common and they don't seem to import spare parts.

After reading the reddit link, I can't disagree, but my only "jams" were what caused my SDS BP12 to go back for repair, and it never jammed or failed to feed or fire until it broke. My only failures with the EGX500 is when a light load on the "High Velocity" gas setting fails to cycle usually doing one of three things -- empty remains in the chamber, empty "stovepipes", or it barely ejects but doesn't pick up a round from the mag and closes on an empty chamber. With ammo I've not shot before I start with the HV setting and push it in if it fails to cycle. I've been able to use very light 7/8 oz target loads with the regulator pushed in for "extra gas".

Thank you for taking the time to make this very thorough response. It is greatly appreciated.
 
I am a fan of Turkish shotguns and own quite a few of them. I suggest that you stick to Rock Island Armory. They build a brand around the models they import and thus there is greater aftermarket support as well as decent customer service. A lot of importers go through different models in a short period of time so there is no support after a year, if at all.
 
Friend had me try out two of his. Using heavy loads, 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 oz, there were failures to feed several times. Having shot a few hundred thousand shotgun shells from fixed breech as well as semis, I know if a shell has enough power to operate a gun.
These were early AR type shotguns but soured me on the platform.
Your mileage may vary.
I admit I'm a luddite and if a sg doesn't have blue steel and walnut, I'm skeptical.
LOL
 
If you really want one of these types, I'd suggest contacting customer support at RIA and inquiring about the warranty and spare parts availability for their VX100 bullpup. RIA has relationships with the best of the Turkish gun makers and if they warrant the VX100 as well as they do their 1911s it would be the safest bet in this class of guns. PSA often has the VX100 on sale for ~$500, so if it has a decent warranty and spare parts availability it would be well worth the extra money. I will go this route if the EXG500 self-destructs out of warranty, although I've not found many good reports about the Panzer Arms warranty service, but I really like this style of shotgun so much that if the RIA has spare parts availability issues I'll suck it up and get the Tavor unless someone makes a commitment to import spare parts for one of these Turkish bullpup 12ga shotguns.
 
If you really want one of these types, I'd suggest contacting customer support at RIA and inquiring about the warranty and spare parts availability for their VX100 bullpup. RIA has relationships with the best of the Turkish gun makers and if they warrant the VX100 as well as they do their 1911s it would be the safest bet in this class of guns. PSA often has the VX100 on sale for ~$500, so if it has a decent warranty and spare parts availability it would be well worth the extra money. I will go this route if the EXG500 self-destructs out of warranty, although I've not found many good reports about the Panzer Arms warranty service, but I really like this style of shotgun so much that if the RIA has spare parts availability issues I'll suck it up and get the Tavor unless someone makes a commitment to import spare parts for one of these Turkish bullpup 12ga shotguns.

As far as I know, the bullpup that RIA imports is called a VRBP100. I dont know much about it but if I was in the market for a turkish bullpup, that would be the one I would get for the simple reason that RIA has decent customer service and once they slap their name on the side of a gun, its part of their brand and they will have it imported for a long time. Parts for RIA imported guns are easier to find than any of the other imports in this category.

Ive done business with both of these companies and they are reputable. Between these 2 places you can get parts for RIA shotguns.

https://advancedtactical.com/parts/shotgun-parts/vr-series-shotgun-parts/
https://www.toothandnailarmory.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST
 
As far as I know, the bullpup that RIA imports is called a VRBP100
Yes this is correct, I remembered the name wrong.

What I don't like is the 20" barrel of the VRBP100, OAL is one of the things I want to minimize, I do like the idea of a non-reciprocating charging handle.
 
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A buddy of mine has a Hatsan Escort BTS410. That thing runs like a well oiled machine. It handles 2.5 and 3" .410 shells of birdshot, buckshot, slug, and self defense loads like a champ. His only complaint is that he has only been able to get the 5 round magazines.

Off of his experience with it and the few times I shot it at the range with him I picked up a TR Imports Silver Eagle shotgun. It is also Turkish mag fed semi auto .410 shotgun, but standard configuration not a bullpup. That thing stove pipes on every single .410 round I feed it aside from the Hornady Critical defense rounds which it eats like candy. Shame it has a 42" overall length.
 
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