Face to face sale/purchase/sale question (legality?)

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I would expect the best answer is to tell the cop the story. I assume the cop wouldn't be demanding a yes/no, and the very last thing you want is to say "yes" and then try to spin a yarn about selling/rebuying while you're getting arrested for something your buddy did while the gun was in his possession.
 
In PA, as long as the LEO is not a Fed, and is not conducting a formal investigation, it is perfectly legal to lie to them. This includes traffic/terry stops.


IANAL
 
Armor Snail said:
In PA, as long as the LEO is not a Fed, and is not conducting a formal investigation, it is perfectly legal to lie to them. This includes traffic/terry stops.


IANAL
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Interesting, but I don't think that's correct. Talking to my buddy Larry the LEO at the local watering hole, I can tell a fish tale. I do not believe that it includes traffic & Terry stops, though.

A quick review of PA statutes brings up this:
(a) Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if he furnishes law enforcement authorities with false information about his identity after being informed by a law enforcement officer who is in uniform or who has identified himself as a law enforcement officer that the person is the subject of an official investigation of a violation of law.

(b) Grading.--An offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 4914 (West)
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The PA Supreme Court had this to say:
Literally read, the statute in question does not make it illegal to provide to a law enforcement authority false information as to one's identity unless and until one is first apprised that he is the subject of an official investigation of a violation of law. If one provides false information as to his identity prior to that point, he has not violated the statute.

Com. v. Barnes, 2011 PA Super 24, 14 A.3d 128, 131 (Pa. Super. Ct. 2011)
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With respect to Terry and traffic stops, I'd be hard pressed to believe that officers are conducting those without identifying themselves. I know that the statute I picked out is a fairly specific example, but I haven't had time to burrow down into the PA statues very far. Do you happen to have a statutory or caselaw example that supports the claim that one can lie to LEO during an investigatory stop?
 
With the police/feds knowing who originally purchased the firearm via 4473 sharing, I would agree the best thing to do for #1 is anwer no questions. If they have a legitimate reason outside of fishing, #1 may be charged with something and still answer no questions, let #1's legal council do the answering. Remember the police/feds can legally lie to you to solicte answers from you. Say nothing and it can't be used against you.
 
Armor Snail said:
In PA, as long as the LEO is not a Fed, and is not conducting a formal investigation, it is perfectly legal to lie to them. This includes traffic/terry stops.
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Do you have some actual, legal authority to support that?

Note that the Pennsylvania statute and Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision cited by Spats McGee in post 28 only deals with false information concerning one's identity. Can you cite some applicable Pennsylvania law supporting the proposition that one may with impunity lie to an LEO regarding other matters?

Armor Snail said:
IANAL
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I am. So is Spats McGee.
 
Blackbeard said:
I'm not a lawyer but I can't imagine it's ever legal to lie to police. Which is why you should never answer questions from police. Do your communicating through your lawyer.
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Never talk to police without a lawyer. Lots of youtube vids on why. Easy to look up and might save you alot of pain.
 
Guide3 said:
Never talk to police without a lawyer. Lots of youtube vids on why. Easy to look up and might save you alot of pain.
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Never ever talk to them (w/o council present) or consent to search without a warrant. They are not trying to help us and SCOTUS has said several time that that don't have a responsibility to even protect us. 99% of local LEOs work side by side with the feds on joint operations and it is never a wise idea to speak with them unless it is under a friendly situation like if you have a buddy that's a LEO that you trust. Even then most LEOs don't want to talk cop talk with civilians.
 
I thought as much, this was a thought experiment, nothing more.

The co worker "doesn't trust the government" and doesn't want a "paper trail" for firearms purchases that can be "traced...."
His words, not mine, he's one of those "chemtrails and false flags" types of conspiracy theory fans....

I buy my firearms at a local sporting goods shop and fill out a 4473 for each purchase, we also live in different states, so even if I wanted to sell a gun to him, which I don't, I couldn't do so anyway, without having him undergo a 4473 himself

He's a law abiding citizen, just a little too "black helicopters are watching us all" for my tastes, perfectly harmless otherwise.

My answer to the thought experiment, as stated up thread, would have been yes, I own that gun, but since my state doesn't have a registry, I'd want to know why they were asking
 
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