Felon "possession" question

[Atom Smasher]

I'm going hunting this season with a friend and he is an ex-con. I'll be hunting with my rifle/shotgun, he'll be bow-hunting with a crossbow. My question is that since he will be driving us out to the hunting grounds, is he technically in possession of my gun in the trunk? This sounds like a stupid question to me, as I'm in the car so I'm in possession, different story if I wasn't in the car... I just don't want him to get pulled over for speeding or something, LEO spots the rifle in the back, and my buddy goes to jail for 5 years.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm going hunting this season with a friend and he is an ex-con. I'll be hunting with my rifle/shotgun, he'll be bow-hunting with a crossbow. My question is that since he will be driving us out to the hunting grounds, is he technically in possession of my gun in the trunk? This sounds like a stupid question to me, as I'm in the car so I'm in possession, different story if I wasn't in the car... I just don't want him to get pulled over for speeding or something, LEO spots the rifle in the back, and my buddy goes to jail for 5 years.

Keep the rifle in a locked case that only you have the key/combination to until such time as you take possession of the rifle and keep the rifle on your person. Don't forget it is also illegal for the convicted felon to possess ammunition, so you will have to lock the ammo too, but it can be in the same case as the gun.

I would recommend key lock, because it is easier to show that he doesn't have a key rather than showing he doesn't know the combination to a lock.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I have a zippered soft case right now- would a small lock on the zipper be enough, or should I go buy a new case? It's one of those letter of the law vs spirit of the law things. Thanks for the reply, Navy, I'm glad I asked.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It has more to do with the definition of possession. Possession is normally defined as a person who has both knowledge of where an item is at and access to that item. I can be in constructive possession of an item, for example, if I know that item is in a storage unit and I have the key to that storage unit even though I am not present at the storage unit at all times.

In this case, the object is to remove the access to the item. Personally, I would go with a plastic or metal hard sided gun case. Probably less than $20. That would be legal to use to fly with the gun in checked baggage whereas a zipper soft side gun case would not be, and part of that requirement is to prevent unauthorized access to the gun.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Cool, I've got to go pick up a new pair of boots anyway. I'll grab a hard case and a lock and should be good to go, right? I definitely don't want to face my buddy's wife after I send him away for what amounts to stupidity on my part.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'll grab a hard case and a lock and should be good to go, right?

I cannot guarantee you will be good to go, because I am not a lawyer or a judge. This is just free internet advice. Somebody is going to come along and post that you should ask local law enforcement. LEO will tell you their personal opinion which may or may not be what how the court system usually decides. CCW instructors are the same way, they will only have the basic knowledge of CCW law, but not interpretation and case law experience. Criminal defense lawyer is your best bet to ask.

Personally, I would not hesitate to travel with a convicted felon with my gun either in a locked case or on my person.

There might be some more "official" advice to be found on the website for the state that has hunting regulations.

 

[BSA1]

A couple of more points;

Keep your gun and ammo out of sight.

Do NOT consent to a search of your vehicle under ANY circumstances.

Is your buddy going to be around firearms when you are in your hunting camp?

 

[Atom Smasher]

We're doing "day" hunts, so I'll be in physical possession of the firearm the entire time.

 

[lemaymiami]

As a former LEO all I'd want to see is an authorized person in the vehicle and a reasonable security on the locked guncase and any ammo container, period.

Yes, I know that there are enforcement types that aren't reasonable -but with the standard you should be in good shape.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

As a former LEO all I'd want to see is an authorized person in the vehicle and a reasonable security on the locked guncase and any ammo container, period.

As a current LEO I agree with this ^^^ 100%. I think it would be pretty obvious that you guys are going hunting and personally I wouldn't give you a hard time at all. Just my personal opinion, but if a LEO is going to give you a hard time he is probably a gung-ho rookie.

What state are you in that bow season and rifle/shotgun don't have separate days for hunting?

 

[Antrome]

As a current LEO I agree with this ^^^ 100%. I think it would be pretty obvious that you guys are going hunting and personally I wouldn't give you a hard time at all. Just my personal opinion, but if a LEO is going to give you a hard time he is probably a gung-ho rookie.

What state are you in that bow season and rifle/shotgun don't have separate days for hunting?

Not sure what state the op is from. In NM I believe most rifle hunts are open to bow,and muzzle loader as well. Even though there are separate hunts that are limited to bow/ muzzle loader respectively.
Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[Jim K]

I think I would go golfing with that friend and hunting with someone else who is not an ex-con.

Jim

 

[jrdolall]

What state are you in that bow season and rifle/shotgun don't have separate days for hunting?

Just about everywhere I hunt it is legal to hunt with "primitive" weapons during rifle season. In some states it is legal to have a rifle and a bow in the stand at the same time and wear a carry sidearm as well. In Alabama bow season begins October 15th and runs through the end of January while gun season basically runs from Mid November till the end of January.

We have a guy that sometimes hunts with us that is a convicted felon. Totally blue collar crime and a former marine Gunny. He bow hunts with us every weekend while we use rifles and we have never had a problem. That doesn't mean the game warden or deputy couldn't give us a hard time because it is common for us to be at the cabin with guns in the house and he is there with us but it has never happened and LEOs are regular visitors.

This is internet advice so you can take it to the bank. With this advice and $100 you can make a $100 deposit at the bank of your choice. I would be as cautious as possible because it isn't worth losing your rights if some Barney gets all crazy.

 

[JERRY]

strange enough, a convicted felon of non violence can possess (not buy but possess) a firearm in Alabama.

 

[RandyRay41]

As a life resident of Alabama I was not aware there was a difference in a felon.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...strange enough, a convicted felon of non violence can possess (not buy but possess) a firearm in Alabama....

That is not correct, at least not exactly correct. Under federal law (18 USC 922(g)(1)):

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;...

...​

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

A "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" is defined to exclude a few types of crimes, specifically (18 USC 921(a)(20)):

...(20) The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include—

(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices,...​

...

That excludes a few sorts of non-violent crimes, but there are a great many types of non-violent felonies which will not fall under the classification of "offenses relating to the regulation of business practices."

It may be that Alabama state law is less stringent than federal law, but that's largely irrelevant. It only means that one will be arrested by federal agents rather than local or state LEOs, tried in federal court instead of state court, and sent to federal prison instead of state prison.

 

[X-Rap]

Frank, any idea of when that statute was enacted?
Is there a list of felony crimes that is published?
It seems that there is an ever increasing list of crimes that have been elevated and it would be interesting to see how menial some are.

 

[jrdolall]

This guy lives in Georgia but hunts with us in Alabama. He was convicted many years ago on a charge, let's just say it was involving money and in no way involved any violence, and spent two years in prison in GA. I don't know if he is still a prohibited person and have no idea what the laws are about it but I will ask him when I see him this year.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Frank, any idea of when that statute was enacted?...

It looks like it's been in essentially that same form since enacted as part of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

...Is there a list of felony crimes that is published?...

I can't imagine that there could be.

...He was convicted many years ago on a charge, let's just say it was involving money and in no way involved any violence, and spent two years in prison in GA. I don't know if he is still a prohibited person....

That doesn't mean that the particular crime is within the exception. There are lots of "money crimes" that are non-violent and still aren't "offenses relating to the regulation of business practices", for example: embezzlement; larceny; passing bad checks; forgery, etc.

 

[X-Rap]

It's to bad that crimes have been elevated over the years and now I think there are many undeserving folks who are prohibited the use of firearms that would in past years been charged and served time for simple misdemeanors and walked out of jail a true free man who had paid his debt to society.

 

[Atom Smasher]

So I've decided to pick up a bow and we're going to go bow-hunting instead, and if I want to use the rifle I'll drive separate or go alone. Better instead than risking my friend's well-being for convenience. Thanks for all the replies!

What state are you in that bow season and rifle/shotgun don't have separate days for hunting?

We're in Texas, and hogs are open year-round. Depending on the area, any method of dispatch is allowed.

I think I would go golfing with that friend and hunting with someone else who is not an ex-con.

As for not hunting with an ex-con, that ex-con is pretty much my closest friend here- just goes to show that not every felon is a moral-less jerk.

 

[JERRY]

I think I was mislead. I was initially speaking of possession, not purchasing; I was also referring to state laws, not federal. I am not al alabama cop so I will have to verify this info.

 

[PedalBiker]

So I've decided to pick up a bow and we're going to go bow-hunting instead, and if I want to use the rifle I'll drive separate or go alone. Better instead than risking my friend's well-being for convenience. Thanks for all the replies!

Now I need to check CO laws, because I thought that they mentioned bows and crossbows in CO laws as being prohibited by felons. Funny, they can drive a car, though.