Felony Questions...

[h0ss]

So i did a search but couldn't really find what i was looking for. I dont really have all day to search for it either, so i figured i would ask here.

I was reading about how it can be a felony to pass a bad check (even if unintentional). First, is this a federal law, or strictly left up to individual states. Because if left up to states, it can't be a felony in every state. If it is a federal law, then i have not been able to find it searching online.

Second, if a check bounced, does that automatically make you a felon? Or would you only be a felon if brought to court and convicted of check fraud?
Basically, im just wondering if as soon as the bank rejects the check are you on the books as a felon? Yeah i know, its a stupid question, but if its kept on record with the bank, even if not convicted and labeled as such in court, it is still recorded proof that you passed a bad check - which could be a felony.

I guess i just get a little paranoid about my 2A rights once in a while and would like some clarification on the matter. Thanks.

 

[ilbob]

you are not a convicted felon unless a court convicts you.

normally, this would not be a federal law situation. I would bet it is a federal law situation if you send the IRS a bad check to pay your taxes though. every state has different laws on this kind of thing, and generally the amount of a bounced check makes the difference between it being a felony or not.

it used to be that many jurisdictions did not put a very high value on bounced check cases so very few were ever prosecuted.

there is also typically a statute of limitations on these kind of crimes so if you aren't prosecuted for some period of time after the check is passed, you are safe.

 

[coloradokevin]

No. You are not a felon for bouncing a check.

Look into your local check fraud type statutes for more details on this. You are asking a question that is far to broad to answer in simple terms, and laws relating to financial crimes are more complicated than most.

You will also know if you are a felon. A "felon", in the sense that we all use the term, implies a conviction (or plea) to an applicable felony charge in court. You aren't a felon if you are put on trial for something (lets say "2nd degree assault") and you win at trial.

Also, note that there is a significant difference between the simple "bouncing" a check, and things like "check kiting", "fraud", etc. Not being able to balance your checkbook from time to time does not make you a felon (though it may get you put on "check systems" and prevent you from opening future bank accounts, depending on how bad the situation is).

However, something like, say, writing checks back and forth between two accounts (knowing that both will overdraft) as a means to get extra money by playing off on the time it will take the checks to clear... is a crime. As is using a "lottery" type scan on an elderly person, or making up fictitious check on someone elses accounts, or intentionally trying to use checks on accounts that you know are closed, or, or, .... (well, you get the idea).

(by the way, most major banks are smart to some of these behaviors by now, and have systems in place to stop it. But, financial crimes evolve as technology progresses, so things are always changing).


By the way, what does this have to do with guns, the 2A, or anything else? (just the felon thing, I suppose?)

 

[h0ss]

Yes, the 'felon' thing is what my question had to do with guns. Hence why i put it in the legal section, and not just general. I like guns (thats why i post here i guess) and always try to avoid anything that would result in me losing my firearms.

I dont ever remember bouncing a check myself, but i vaguely remember my wife may have bounced one accidentally a couple of years ago for a small amount. Of course, both of our names are on our checks.

Like i said, i just get paranoid sometimes because the stupidest things can be felonies and wanted to make sure it wasnt something that was going to come back and bite me later on down the road.

I did kind of guess that you had to be actually convicted of a felony in court to ever worry about anything like that. Now that i think about it, it is just common sense. I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[Brad Johnson]

In certain states you can be tried on felony charges if you are a habitual bad-check offender.

Brad

 

[Pilgrim]

In California, knowingly and willfully writing a check or checks when you know there is not enough money in the bank account to cover them is a public offense. If the value of the check or checks exceeds $200, it can be charged as a felony.

As I recall, the statute was 476a of the Penal Code.

Pilgrim

 

[damien]

In California, knowingly and willfully writing a check or checks when you know there is not enough money in the bank account to cover them is a public offense. If the value of the check or checks exceeds $200, it can be charged as a felony.

See, this sounds fair to me. The state has a pretty reasonable burden of proof if the state have to prove that the person did it "knowingly and willingly". If a person has a couple of thousands dollars going in and out of an account every month and that persion writes a lot of checks, the state isn't going to be able to prove that on a bounce or two. Even a bounce on a $200 check can be simply a mathematical error.

On the other hand, if the person is writing a check on an account that is closed or has a zero balance and no deposits in months, etc., the state might be able to prove it (in the absence of a decent excuse like the check writer has two accounts and wrote the check off the wrong book, unknowningly - I did this once, but recognized my error and made a quick cash deposit). In that case, the person tajes their chances since they are probably a crook!

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Because if left up to states, it can't be a felony in every state.

In an effort to balance that, ATF goes by the guideline that you are prohibited from purchasing a firearm if you are convicted and/or under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

 

[jrfoxx]

In certain states you can be tried on felony charges if you are a habitual bad-check offender.

Yup, that and usually, the amount the bad/bounced cheack was for makes a big difference too.Just like theft. Under a certain amount/value, its usually a misdomeaner, over a certain amount, it generally becomes a felony. Drug laws are the same way too.Amount can matter just as much as intent, and it varies from state to state.Foir the feds, I think the check would need to cross state lines, involve a federal agency, be part of some other federal crime like drug trafficing, etc to involve them, as opposed to JUST being over a certain value, although since banks are federally insured/portected, there MAY be a ceratian (likely pretty high) value it which point it becomes a federal offense and felony regardless of the states laws.

 

[h0ss]

In an effort to balance that, ATF goes by the guideline that you are prohibited from purchasing a firearm if you are convicted and/or under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

Yeah, i think i remember the form to purchase a firearm asks a question like that, right?

It's funny, because in my state, if convicted of purposely passing a bad check, i think the max penalty is 1 year in prison. So, if the fed. law says "exceeding one year", would serving up to one year, but not over, keep you out of trouble? I wonder if the would just consider up to one year the same thing?

Well, after checking a couple of different sources online, one says that a check over $200 in my state constitutes a felony, anything under is a misdemeanor. Another site says they are all misdemeanors.

Oh well, not like i have anything to worry about. I hate laws, they are too complicated.

 

[El Tejon]

First, is this a federal law, or strictly left up to individual states. Because if left up to states, it can't be a felony in every state. If it is a federal law, then i have not been able to find it searching online.

Yes, it can be a federal crime. Look under mail fraud. United States Attorneys (federal prosecutors) have different guidelines as to when they will step in and prosecute. Usually left up to states. States call it a multitude of things Check Deception, Larceny by Device or Trick, Theft, Conversion, inter alia.

Second, if a check bounced, does that automatically make you a felon? Or would you only be a felon if brought to court and convicted of check fraud?

Well, prosecutors would certainly like that. No, you still need due process before you become a felon. Your latter question is correct.

 

[gym]

When I had a gym in South Fl., I was told that it was illegal to post date a check, anyone aware of that one?

 

[El Tejon]

gym, depends on how the statute is written. Depending on the facts and statute, I could see a Fraud case or a paper hanger case.

My state's statute sez that, keeping in Indiana's liberal contractual rules, if the parties agree on a post dated check, then it's okey-dokey.

 

[Winchester 73]

gym,Free Advice answers!It's not illegal.

http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=306915

 

[Jim K]

The federal firearms law does not use the work "felony" in regard to persons prohibited from buying or owning a firearm. It does say "crime punishable by more than one year", which usually is a felony, but then adds spousal abuse which is usually a misdemeanor.

Note that "punishable" wording. If the law says the penalty for a crime can be five years, and you are convicted but serve only six months or are put on probation, you can't legally buy or own a firearm. If the law says "up to one year in prison", you are OK even if you serve the full year.

Jim

 

[h0ss]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I felt kind of stupid asking these questions, because it makes me sound kind of paranoid, but i feel better now. Thanks.

 

[Vermonter]

If you read the fed laws further, "longer than a year" only applies if the state doesn't define felonies. So if you get a misdemeanor that could result in 2 years, and the state defines it as a misdemeanor, the fed laws don't apply. However, it could still prevent CCW licenses, etc etc etc