Firearm theft questions, seeking counsel.

[iamudder]

Hi all, I've been lurking on these forums for years and finally found myself seeking special advice. I loaned one of my handguns to my sister in it's original hard case with no ammunition. As a precaution she left it in his vehicle, seeing as he's a 14 year USMC veteran I was okay with that. Long story short they broke it off roughly, the police were involved. Since then we've gone to his residence several times with the police and he never answers the door.

He has claimed the weapon is his but can procure no bill of sale or anything. While I didn't keep a receipt I do have the purchase history from Buds in Lexington where purchased the handgun in May.

The police said to contact my lawyer. Does he have any real defense? He cannot claim he doesn't have the firearm because on my sisters first altercation she tried talking the handgun from his car with the rest of her things but the police gave the weapon back to him because she had no proof it was mine. I asked her why they didn't track the serial number back to me and she said the officer on scene told her "we don't do that" (I was working at the time).

How do I approach this legally?

 

[Sam1911]

Probably a small claims court concern. Unfortunately the cost of one handgun is not worth more than a few hours of a lawyer's time.

You MIGHT try getting a sympathetic lawyer to write an official letter threatening him with legal action. That will cost you an hour's worth of time or so, but might get him to cough it up. Or not.

 

[iamudder]

That sounds like a good first step, as far as it being worth the time I did mention that to my sister but as the saying goes, hell hath no fury. She has wealthy friends and one less firearm in this idiots grasp is a plus to the world in my eyes.

 

[Bubbles]

Get a copy of your receipt from Bud's and a copy of the 4473 from the dealer who did the transfer, then sue for the gun or its value in small claims court.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

You loaned property to your sister. She is the one who lost it. She is responsible.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Get a copy of your receipt from Buds .. or a copy of your 4473 from your FFL.

Ain't that hard.

 

[AlexanderA]

Lesson to be learned: never loan a gun to anyone. Heck, I wouldn't even -- especially! -- loan a gun to my own wife! (Not that she'd be the least bit interested in one.) (We also don't drive each other's cars, or mess with each other's bank accounts.) It's good to have a sense of boundaries.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Amen, AlexanderA....

 

[wv109323]

I would tell the ex boyfriend that I was going to file a police report that the gun was stolen. After all it is by definition if you loaned it to your sister without an agreement with her boyfriend. Since you have evidence that you bought the gun ( and have the serial number) then you can say it was stolen.
Many people claim a car is stolen when some one that was not authorized to drive the car takes it without the owner's permission.
I don't think he will want to possess a stolen gun if he is "law abiding". That kind of ties his hands as to what he can do with it.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

We only know the gun was loaned to the sister. We do not know the terms of the transaction between her and the boyfriend. She could have gifted , sold, or traded it to him.

 

[mgkdrgn]

We only know the gun was loaned to the sister. We do not know the terms of the transaction between her and the boyfriend. She could have gifted , sold, or traded it to him.

And how does she -legally- do that if she is not the owner?

If I loan you something ownership does not transfer.

 

[45_auto]

If I loan you something ownership does not transfer.

How about if I gave my sister a gun as a gift, then she gave it to you as a gift?

Would you not believe that it was your gun?

No one here has both sides of the story, that's what small claims court is for.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

And how does she -legally- do that if she is not the owner?

If I loan you something ownership does not transfer.

Right....The sister was loaned the gun and is responsible for it....

 

[Sniper66]

I know of a similar situation involving a chain saw. The owner loaned it to his brother, who subsequently loaned it to a "friend". The friend damaged it, but denied he had done so and the owner held his brother responsible. The brother paid for the repair without argument and apologized to his brother.....because they trust each other.

 

[Grey_Mana]

Hi all, I've been lurking on these forums for years and finally found myself seeking special advice. I loaned one of my handguns to my sister in it's original hard case with no ammunition. As a precaution she left it in his vehicle, seeing as he's a 14 year USMC veteran I was okay with that. Long story short they broke it off roughly, the police were involved. Since then we've gone to his residence several times with the police and he never answers the door.

He has claimed the weapon is his but can procure no bill of sale or anything. While I didn't keep a receipt I do have the purchase history from Buds in Lexington where purchased the handgun in May.

The police said to contact my lawyer. Does he have any real defense? He cannot claim he doesn't have the firearm because on my sisters first altercation she tried talking the handgun from his car with the rest of her things but the police gave the weapon back to him because she had no proof it was mine. I asked her why they didn't track the serial number back to me and she said the officer on scene told her "we don't do that" (I was working at the time).

How do I approach this legally?

I call 'unlikely'. "We've gone to his residence several times with the police." Really? There are police who forgot to get you to fill out a theft report, didn't bother to get a warrant, but found the time to swing by somebody's house, with involved third parties?

Every cop I know, loves to take an ex-girlfriend and her brother by the home of her estranged boyfriend. They love explaining to their supervisor's boss just what they were thinking, and why they shouldn't be held responsible for the Jerry Springer antics that ensued.

 

[iamudder]

Unlikely? So you're saying I make new accounts on random forums to troll people with fictitious fairy tails about retarded exes.

Right.

Let me clarify a few things and expand my already extremely long explanation so you understand. This national guard soldier, ex-marine used my sister and her checkbook for himself. I liked him a lot and I hate the majority of people she dates. I mean, dating sister huge supporter of firearms. Right up my alley. The guy lied, told her he wasnt married when he was, said he had one kid when he had three. None of the same mother. She caught him cheating and tried to get her books and papers from his vehicle (along with my gun). He saw her outside and called the police saying there's an unknown woman with a gun outside his apartment. PD showed up weapons drawn on my sister, a 6th and 7th grade science teacher.

That was the first altercation where the cops gave my gun back to him. The second one was a day later where she was going to exchange his uniforms for her stuff and my gun but he was not home. Third time was yesterday, I was with her we got the same polite officer and he wouldn't answer the door. Shortly after the original officer who pulled a gun on her from day one told the officer already there to tell her it's a court issue and to get lost.

So maybe those are the type of Officers you know, the judgmental ignorant kind.

/rant

 

[ColtPythonElite]

It is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If your sister was in possession of the gun with your permission when it was "stolen", your claim is against the sister, not the person who "stole" the gun. Then, once she is found responsible for your loss, it would be up to her to sue the boyfriend who "stole" the gun.

If you loan an object to me, and I accept responsibility for that object with a promise, either implied or implicit, that I will return the item to you at the end of the loan period with only reasonable wear and tear on it - than I am the only one responsible for the return of the object to you.