Firearm Vs. Mindset

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DT Guy

Feb 23, 2003
Police released photos Friday afternoon of the people wanted in the Thursday robbery and battery of an off-duty Chicago police sergeant in the Loop.

The sergeant was seriously injured Thursday after he was beaten and robbed of his gun in a downtown parking garage, police said. The incident happened at 3 p.m. in the 100 block of West Madison Street.

Further proof that simply HAVING a gun doesn't make you safe; situational awareness is a necessary component of ANY effective defensive strategy.

Sadly, it sounds like this officer was taken unawares, and is now hospitalized in serious condition, and his service weapon is in the hands of his attackers.

It might also serve as a reminder that there's a reason folks call this city 'Chiraq'.....

Reading the tribune article leads me to think that he was being targeted since they singled him out from the other two he was with. Revenge attack? Seemed like he had time to draw his weapon although the article wasn't full of details.
Well it's not really a firearms .vs. mindset but more of 'I'm in condition white and don't bother me' mindset.

Weapon or not, if you daydream you open yourself for attack by those who are not daydreaming.

And sudden vicious attacks will overwhelm a daydreamer, no matter what they are armed with.

In general, if someone wants to get you, they will. The only gunfight scenario you will survive is the one that's not been planned by your assailant(s). By planned, I mean where did some constructive thinking before he acted. Not referring to the short term plans of a bad guy who sees an opportunity and jumps on it.

If you are always alert, you might spot planned trouble quickly enough to save you, but probably not.
Wow, eight to ten attackers is bad odds, even if you're armed. Sounds like none of them were shot- wonder if he even drew on 'em? You probably can't take all ten of them but I'm thinking after the first couple go down the rest will suddenly feel an urgent need to be somewhere else.
Open carry....

Open carry is fine.
The only stipulation or advice Id offer is to use a secure rig with at least one retention device. ;)
Weapon snatches or thefts are a concern but 98% of open carry users will need to avoid having the gun fall out :eek: or get bumped/scuffed/scratched/mag come loose/etc.
Some gunners & cops hoot and holler like a pack of thugs or zombies will rally up then start to chase you down the street if you open carry. :mad:
Use common sense & be alert. Be aware of your surroundings(360 degrees) & don't get distracted(cell phone, talking, headphones/blue-tooth headset).

Believe it or not, armed, trained LE officers & combat veterans/gun owners get robbed or even killed in botched violent crimes. :uhoh:

A recent clip I watched had a similar - attitude about OC. The young woman stated how a "open carry" gun is not a talisman. It doesn't ward off evil or protect you 100% of the time. I agree with her on that point.
"So you still want to open carry and advertise your gun?"

^ This. 100%. Unless afield...


I've always felt that OC would be highly likely to make you the first target if things went bad. I'd much rather be an unknown quantity.
Not to move this thread the wrong direction but I'm cool with open carry if that's what folks want to do. Me personally? I'd rather the BG *not* know if I am armed or not and what I might be armed with.

If you are open carrying and some guy tries to git cha? He already has a really good plan or more accomplices than you can handle and knows he's gonna come out on top. Otherwise he'd bide his time and wait until he has the terrain and situation to his advantage. I feel that if one is openly attacked while open carrying the guys doing the attacking know something that the open carry Dude doesn't know/isn't in a position to circumvent with the gun on his hip.

I think people should do as they think best but I'm not gonna open carry even if I get that right. Let the Bad Guys guess if I'm armed or not and they can find out what I have and what I can do with it without flagging.

If you are always alert, you might spot planned trouble quickly enough to save you, but probably not.

I'll have to beg to disagree. There are several "signals" that a planned attack is afoot. Some are very subtle. Others, not so much. The trick is in recognizing the subtle ones before the plan comes together. It's also possible to be the target of opportunity of an attack that's been planned. You can easily stumble into an ambush.

A change in direction that seems to be geared to yours is one. A group of young men "hanging out" with no obvious purpose without young women with them is another.

A request for the time or for a cigarette is a huge red flag. He's trying to get your attention diverted. Don't take your eyes off of him for even a split second.

Never allow a stranger to invade your personal space...and always extend that space when you're alone at night. Triple your normal comfort zone.

And never, under any circumstances, shake hands with a stranger on the or night. I don't care if he claims to be the new preacher from the Antioch Baptist Church over on the next block.
Sometimes carrying a gun gives one a false sense of security. I have no idea if that was the issue here. I try to stay the hell out of Chicago. When I'm there, I don't go without a weapon or wander around after dark. And even with a gun, I'd still be nervous.
The is no defense for a well planned ambush with multiple attackers.

Like tuner said being situationally aware to clues might give you the edge get out in time.
The is no defense for a well planned ambush with multiple attackers.

Like tuner said being situationally aware to clues might give you the edge get out in time.
Well not necessarily.

Davis's police, in the 1870s, stopped and asked John Wesley Hardin for his guns.

He wrote that he gave them the contents thereof.

If you are real quick and they ain't, you can still win.

Read the news and you will see how ruthless the criminal mind can be, find these worst of the worst and you will have your hands full even if you're a healthy grown man. Pray your strong and lucky enough to survive the initial contact if caught off guard and that you can muster up as much ruthlessness as them.
Be nice if we were able to maintain the vigilance that some claim but maintaining that constantly is near if not impossible.
I'm failing to see how concealed carry would have made this incident end any differently, assuming he wasn't actually carrying concealed already. Having proper situational awareness, on the other hand, could have made a huge difference.
* * * And sudden vicious attacks will overwhelm a daydreamer, no matter what they are armed with.


This is really a mindset issue, and unfortunately this case provides a sad object lesson for when you're out and about in public places. It councils maintaining awareness of people around you and, especially, observing body language and "group movements," i.e., 2 or more individuals moving near or around you, or approaching you simultaneously or from multiple directions. Look for things like eye-contact and signals.

I eyeball anyone coming near my personal space, even at places like Starbucks at 7a.m.

Also, agree with those choosing to CCW, rather than to open carry.
O.C. is certainly a valid option and I wouldn't take that right away from anyone, but I think that the claimed deterrent value of O.C. against a determined bad guy, or group of BGs as here, is overrated.

Yeah, as always, just my opinion.

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In the news article, nothing was said about whether or not the off-duty officer was OCing. But this was Chicago and it's getting rather cold and, in all liklihood, he had a jacket on that would partially or completely cover his gun.

OC or CC - nothing except better "situational awareness" would have stopped this.
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