Firearms lesson No. 1: Gun isn't a hammer:

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WAGCEVP

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Firearms lesson No. 1: Gun isn't a hammer:


PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette
DATE: 2004.01.13
EDITION: Final
SECTION: News
PAGE: A7
BYLINE: SIDHARTHA BANERJEE
SOURCE: The Gazette

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Firearms lesson No. 1: Gun isn't a hammer: Officer's pistol fired when he hit window

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A Montreal police officer who used his service pistol to smash a car window probably caused it to accidentally discharge, an internal investigation by the force shows.

Police don't believe there was anything wrong with the service weapon, the new semi-automatic 9-millimetre Walther P99 Quick Action pistol Montreal police officers use.

"An expert is looking at the weapon, but we don't have the results yet," said Commander Pierre Cadieux, head of the Montreal police media-relations department. "But we don't think the gun was at fault."

Officers were attempting to nab a car thief who had escaped from a drug-rehabilitation centre and was under the influence of drugs.

When officers went to talk to the driver of the vehicle, Cadieux said, the thief locked the vehicle's automatic doors. Police ordered him to open the door but, instead, he put the car in drive. One of the officers then used a service revolver to smash the driver's side window.

"When he smashed the window, the gun went off," Cadieux said. "We don't know is whether the gun went off after the smashing motion or whether the trigger was pulled."

The weapon jammed after the shot was fired, Cadieux said.

The arrested man wasn't seriously injured and the officer suffered a sprained wrist.

Cadieux said the incident, which occurred two days before Christmas, was extremely rare.

"In extreme emergency cases, officers may use their weapon in that way (and it may be justified), but it's not something we usually do," he said.

According to the latest available data, Montreal police officers only fired a total of 25 shots in all of 2002. Of those, 13 shots were fired at a suspect or at an escaper in a moving car.

Montreal officers started switching to the Walther P99 QA from their old .357-calibre revolvers in April 2002, one of the last police forces in North America to change from revolvers to semi-automatic pistols. It will be at least another year before all officers have the new firearm.

Each officer gets two days of training on firing and safe loading and must pass an exam. Each officer is required to load and discharge their revolver at the end of each shift, as a way of getting more accustomed to the new weapon.

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My guess is that his finger got in the way of the trigger. I'm glad no one was seriously hurt.
 
Yeah sounds like finger on trigger, (I'm not LEO but even I know that's what your ASP or baton is for) and by reflex clenches his hand to strike the window...*bang*

And come on people:
'the service weapon, the new semi-automatic 9-millimetre Walther P99 Quick Action pistol Montreal police officers use.'

and then a paragraph later:
'One of the officers then used a service revolver to smash the driver's side window'

Does Walther make a new version of the Mateba for LEO?

I know I know but it still bugs me.
 
And come on people:
'the service weapon, the new semi-automatic 9-millimetre Walther P99 Quick Action pistol Montreal police officers use.'

and then a paragraph later:
'One of the officers then used a service revolver to smash the driver's side window'

lol apparently!

It's called the P99QAP :D
 
According to the latest available data, Montreal police officers only fired a total of 25 shots in all of 2002. Of those, 13 shots were fired at a suspect or at an escaper in a moving car.

Maybe some LEOs can clue me in... but I'm hoping there are valid reasons for the other 12 rounds. I'm assuming they meant 25 while on duty. If the remaining 12 were all the rounds that the entire department used for training we might know why the firearm went off "accidentally".

Putting down out of control or wild animals perhaps? I hope so.
 
"Montreal police officers only fired a total of 25 shots in all of 2002"

so I guess they have 25 rounds left.....
 
In spite of what you saw on TeeeVeee on those '50's & 60's "Saturday Afternoon Western Block" shows, you should not use your firearm to tack up 'Wanted' posters...or smash glass, either.

:rolleyes:
 
"In extreme emergency cases, officers may use their weapon in that way (and it may be justified), but it's not something we usually do," he said.

According to the latest available data, Montreal police officers only fired a total of 25 shots in all of 2002. Of those, 13 shots were fired at a suspect or at an escaper in a moving car.

...and 12 in those "extreme emergencies", I take it. :what:

Each officer gets two days of training on firing and safe loading and must pass an exam. Each officer is required to load and discharge their revolver at the end of each shift, as a way of getting more accustomed to the new weapon.

Maybe they should take up the Walthers & give them back the revolvers that they're actually TRAINING with... :rolleyes:

(...or at least find a reporter who knows the difference. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )
 
You know, I was thinking last night about this thread and wondering a few things. I know that auto glass can be pretty difficult to break, and I’m envisioning someone trying to break the door glass. With a right handed person holding a semi-auto and taking a swing, it seems like your point of impact would be somewhere along the polymer frame/dust cover in front of the trigger guard. I wonder how much force it would take to strike the surface hard enough to disable the firearm? Maybe that’s why the weapon malfunctioned after the first shot?

Mental note: When breaking auto glass use:
A) ASP
B) baton
C) 1911
D) N-frame revolver
E) crew-served weapons
 
Not familar with that praticular weapon, but bet he used a "pistol punch" strike to break the glass. If the pistol, (Not revolver!) has a firing pin block, (don't they all) it either failed, or he had his finger on the trigger. I'd bet on the later! In a situtation like that you have a tendency to use whatever you have in your hand. The ASP would have been a better choice.
Will
Edit: Mark, you're right. A spring loaded center punch will take safety glass right out. Don't know anyone who carries one on the duty belt though.
 
Should have used a 4-cell Mag-Light. They will crack skulls so it should break glass.
 
Yes, there are plenty of tiny little pocket tools that will completely break an entire car window easily. Last summer I took some kids from my school to Killeen's Junior Fire Academy. When we stood in on the real fire academy one morning they were demonstrating to the cadets how to break a car window with a car's radio antenna. If you take the thicker part at the bottom and hold it tightly against the glass and then pull back the end with the little ball on it and let it slap sharply against the window it will shatter the whole thing. It's pretty cool and kinda hard to believe until you see it done. It takes much less than you'd think to break a car window...as long as the energy is sharp and focused into a small area it will go easily.

brad cook
 
I suspect that just shooting out the window would have solved the problem. The noise and flying glass would kinda make the moron think real hard about quickly shifting back into park.


According to the latest available data, Montreal police officers only fired a total of 25 shots in all of 2002. Of those, 13 shots were fired at a suspect or at an escaper in a moving car. The remaining 12 were fired while breaking glass.
 
Auto glass is extremel strong.
Only the windsheild, and it breaks easily, its just a pain to get through the plastic between the two peices of glass.

If any of you own a disposable car, when youre done with it, try to punch through a window. Youll be surprised at how easy it is. the bigger the window, the easier it breaks.

I have no need for one of the pocket tools specificly for breaking glass and cutting seatbelts. I can use the butt of my CRKT to break the glass in with the flip of a wrist open it to cut a seatbelt.

I knew the anntenna trick, but here's another. If the window is open a little bit, just grab the top near the center and jerk it towards you. If The upside is that the most of glass doesnt go all over the injured/disorianted victim(s), the downside is that it goes all over you, so be sure to close your eyes at least. If the window is tinted, most of the glass wont go anywhere since its glued to the film. You can shatter the glass and just let it hang down the side of the door, or you can cut/tear the film and toss it aside.
 
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