Form when shooting ar-15 offhand

[pawn256]

My question is about the location of the buttstock when firing an Ar-15 offhand (standing). I stand straight up with my neck straight up and my rear shoulder relaxed and my rear elbow low and in fairly close to my body. In order to get a proper sight picture from this position I have to bring the rifle up high enough that only about the bottom inch of the buttstock is in the "pocket" of my shoulder. In order to fix this and look more like the example shown in the army's guide (top right): http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/image1624.jpg
I have to either crank my neck down and bend my back a little or raise my shoulder way up and stick my elbow out. I doubt either of these would help accuracy any.

This doesn't seem to be as much of a problem in other firing positions where my body isn't as erect as when firing offhand. What am I doing wrong? How should I be shooting?

 

[Slamfire]

Everyone's body is built different. The only "standard" standing position is one where both feet are touching the ground.

Move your body, turn your feet, turn your waist, do whatever is necessary to achieve the most stable position you can.

And yet the most stable position you achieve will have wobble. The difference between a good standing position and a bad position is the amount of wobble.

After you have got a minimum of wobble, you have to train your brain to pull the trigger when you see a ten over your post. It won't be there long, maybe a heart beat or two, a second at most. If you wait and admire it, you will wobble out of it.

Your own physical condition is extremely important in standing. Your mental condition is extremely important too. Get that heartbeat down, don't have the rifle on your shoulder for so long that you start to tremble. Take breaks. Don't get angry when you mess up, block out the distractions around you.

And when you see a ten, train the brain to take it.

A good standing score is only acheived through practice, practice, practice.

 

[Winston_Smith]

In the standing position, bring the rifle up to your cheek. You should also have a "turkey neck"/nose on the charging handle. It is normal for only a small part of the buttstock to be in contact with your shoulder pocket. Like in the picture, your elbow should be parallel to the ground (to create a larger pocket).

 

[nbkky71]

When I shoot standing, only the toe the buttstock is on my shoulder. This allows me to position the rifle closer to my line of sight and keep my head/neck upright.

My support hand is vertical under the rifle, supporting the weight. The support elbow is tucked into the ribcage to provide an anchor point.

I've found that the elbow-parallel-to-the-ground method works best when shooting the M1/M1A. At least for me, it's easier on the wrist to bring the elbow low and close to the body when shooting an AR15. It also steadies my position having the shooting arm tucked close to my body.

I also lean backwards slightly, bringing the weight of the gun over my chest to better stabilize my position.

As SlamFire1 says... shooting offhand requires a uniquely individual style. While you can learn the basics from a book, it's going to take lots of practice & dry firing to find out what really works best. Be willing to put in the time and you'll see the benefits.

Want to see & learn different techniques? Show up at a local highpower match and take notes about what the competitors do.

 

[Howard Roark]

Check out this article on off hand shooting from the USAMU.

 

[OurSafeHome.net]

Turning your toes inboard will help steady your entire body.

(Just be sure to start saving for your hip replacement now!)

 

[stillaftermath]

The "tip to shoulder" method is pretty well accepted with ARs. Like Howard Roark's link, if you look at photos of military shooters, you'll see them doing the exact same thing you're describing; bringing the rifle very high so that only an inch or two is in the pocket of the shoulder. It's not the strict and proper rifleman's form, but it works quite well with the form factor the AR and it's low recoil.

I say just keep doing what you're doing. Read the AMU stuff as linked above and perfect what is coming to you naturally rather than trying to force something else just because you might look a little silly. I'll take 5 shots in the 10 ring over 1 photo of me looking cool doing "assault offhand" or something any day of the week.

 

[krs]

It's a matter of whatever works for you to get a good repeatable sight picture and steady aim. I know a guy who puts the butt of his rifle right on top of his shoulder because his neck is a little longer than most.

The low recoil of the rifles allow for a lot of variations to work.

 

[usmc1371]

Most of the butstock is above my sholder, right arm tucked in tight to chest, I support the weight in the web of my left hand between my thumb and fingers with palm facing me right on the slipring-kind of holding the front of the mag well only not squeezing it just letting the rifle rest there. Now here's the trick... small bottle of hand sanatizer in front left blouse pocket and suff it under your left arm kind of creating a shelf for your left tricept to rest on so no muscle is used to hold up the rifle. make your feet comfy and move them for right and left adjustment. With your support arm tucked tight to your chest you can use your breath for up and down adjustment- breath in for up and out for down. Also stage the HELL out of the trigger I pull about 8.5lbs worth befor I even take my final breath (M-16) and when the sight pic is good break the last little bit of pull and Fallow Through. This may not all work for you but the two times I went to the range I shot high score for my company, I had the chance to shoot the Marine Corps match but it was right in the middle of elk season and my shooting skills were needed else whare. Good luck and keep trying diffrent things till you find out what works for you.

 

[carbine85]

In the example you show the rear elbow up. You stated that yours is down and close to the body. I was always taught to keep the elbow at about 45 degrees. I was also taught to use what's comfortable and relaxed with the trigger hand.

 

[pawn256]

Thanks for all the responses, they've helped me a lot.
Howard Roark that's an excellent link, thanks!

I'll probably be back with more marksmanship questions later

 

[PandaBearBG]

Well I usually shoot standing with a 20" barrel, so to eliminate sway or bobbing, I have a firm slightly wider than shoulder width stance facing 90 degrees to the right of my target, torque/twist my waist 90 back to my target (barrel down when you turn!) until you cannot turn your body anymore, this eliminates left/right sway for me, Left arm slung tight around bicep and left elbow wedged/planted firmly against my body, leaning/resting my whole upper torso back so my torso is sitting/resting snug against my torqued lower body which makes my center of gravity more centered for a better site picture. Because of sling tauntness, my body torqued to the maximum, everything is tight and stable and stock locked solid in shoulder, solid cheek weld, deep breath, bang, pow.