Found a Pistol in a Car, in a garage, from 1934!
- Thread starter Leedavisone
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Montgomery ward & Co., Chicago (1895)
Colt's ARMY
MODEL 1892
38 & 41 CALIBRES
Ejects the shells the same as No. 47146
47150 Colt's New Army Revolver, double action, self cocking, model 1892.
Adopted by the Ordnance Bureau U.SArmy Nickel plated, rubber stocks, Everone warranted perfect. Length of barrels, 3 inch, 4 1/2 inch and 6 inch. Weight about 2 lbs. 38 caliber, using No. 47197 or 47198 cartridges.....$13.00
Postage, 35 cents extra.
The finish is the only thing diferent in this add.
The 47146 refered to in the add is the ;
Colts New Navy
The New navy is advertised in Nickel and blued finish. The emblem on the stocks is the Army as the Navy has COLT in the oval. $12.00 Cost
Nice Find!
Gbro
Colt's ARMY
MODEL 1892
38 & 41 CALIBRES
Ejects the shells the same as No. 47146
47150 Colt's New Army Revolver, double action, self cocking, model 1892.
Adopted by the Ordnance Bureau U.SArmy Nickel plated, rubber stocks, Everone warranted perfect. Length of barrels, 3 inch, 4 1/2 inch and 6 inch. Weight about 2 lbs. 38 caliber, using No. 47197 or 47198 cartridges.....$13.00
Postage, 35 cents extra.
The finish is the only thing diferent in this add.
The 47146 refered to in the add is the ;
Colts New Navy
The New navy is advertised in Nickel and blued finish. The emblem on the stocks is the Army as the Navy has COLT in the oval. $12.00 Cost
Nice Find!
Gbro
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daniel (australia)
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If you have a good idea of where the numbers are supposed to be, a lab may be able to recover them by etching the steel.
The stamping process disturbs the steel well below the surface, and so while the numbers might have been filed off they can still be "recovered" by etching the surface - assuming they were ever there, assuming any filing hasn't gone too deep and assuming that there was no other technique used to obliterate the evidence.
A solution like 5% Nital (5% nitric acid in ethanol) would do it, but you'd need to be careful both because this stuff is hazardous to health and also because it will take off bluing and of course etch the surface of the steel it contacts, so you only want to apply it where the numbers are likely to be found, and then rinse it all off. Dabbing it on evenly with a Q-tip would be my suggestion, and then letting it do its work before rinsing well with ethanol (being careful not to wash it over the rest of the revolver) and blowing dry with air.
As I suggested, this is the sort of thing a lab might do. I can't advise as to the legal implications of taking it to a third party though.
HTH
The stamping process disturbs the steel well below the surface, and so while the numbers might have been filed off they can still be "recovered" by etching the surface - assuming they were ever there, assuming any filing hasn't gone too deep and assuming that there was no other technique used to obliterate the evidence.
A solution like 5% Nital (5% nitric acid in ethanol) would do it, but you'd need to be careful both because this stuff is hazardous to health and also because it will take off bluing and of course etch the surface of the steel it contacts, so you only want to apply it where the numbers are likely to be found, and then rinse it all off. Dabbing it on evenly with a Q-tip would be my suggestion, and then letting it do its work before rinsing well with ethanol (being careful not to wash it over the rest of the revolver) and blowing dry with air.
As I suggested, this is the sort of thing a lab might do. I can't advise as to the legal implications of taking it to a third party though.
HTH
SDC
Member
You wouldn't NEED to acid-etch it if it came to that point; you can use "MagnaFlux" equipment to disclose the impression that the numbers would've left. This process uses a very powerful electromagnet touched to the metal in question, then a fine oil spray containing tiny metal particles is sprayed onto the surface; the fine particles congregate around the "flux" lines coming out of the surface at the edges of the compressed metal, allowing you to read the numbers.
daniel (australia)
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Yes magnetic particle testing would quite likely reveal the numbers, if you have access to the gear. It won't recover them in any permanent way or change the piece at all, which may or may not be a factor.
Nital is probably a good deal easier to get hold of without involving others
Nital is probably a good deal easier to get hold of without involving others
Beagle-zebub
Member
Oooo, a Colt .41! Just like the Leadbelly song.
COMMENTS
1. Loved the post - thanks!
2. Great pic of the firearm.
3. Loved hearing the Olds history.
4. I thought BATFE had a procedure for legally restoring or reassigning serial numbers.
5. Loved seeing the pic of the '35. Indeed it looks like "the" Gangland Car. D'ja look under the seats for a Thompson? (Just asking if you looked. We don't have to know if you found one.)
6. Wanna buy me a lottery ticket?
1. Loved the post - thanks!
2. Great pic of the firearm.
3. Loved hearing the Olds history.
4. I thought BATFE had a procedure for legally restoring or reassigning serial numbers.
5. Loved seeing the pic of the '35. Indeed it looks like "the" Gangland Car. D'ja look under the seats for a Thompson? (Just asking if you looked. We don't have to know if you found one.)
6. Wanna buy me a lottery ticket?
Mark in California
Member
Just some thoughts.
First the weapon is over fifty years old - it is a Curio and Relic
Second it probley did not have to have a serial number when produced.
Anyway the statue of limitation has expired on any violation of the NFA in the removal of the serial number and GCA 68 did not be come a law until 1968.
A great find, a great story and would not be a problem in California.
First the weapon is over fifty years old - it is a Curio and Relic
Second it probley did not have to have a serial number when produced.
Anyway the statue of limitation has expired on any violation of the NFA in the removal of the serial number and GCA 68 did not be come a law until 1968.
A great find, a great story and would not be a problem in California.
ScottsGT
Member
All we ever found in a car was a womans hand. At least we got her wedding band/engagement ring back to her. EMT's overlooked the fact that if the hand came off, it had to be somewhere. We just followed the odor a week later.
Another reason I gave up the career as a paint and bodyman......
EMT's overlooked the fact that if the hand came off, it had to be somewhere. We just followed the odor a week later.Another reason I gave up the career as a paint and bodyman......
Mark- Being C&R is meaningless. If the gun had a serial it's illegal to remove it and it's illegal to own a gun with a defaced serial. No matter when it was done, owning it now is prohibited.
Yes, it had a number. All Colts have serial numbers no matter when they were made. Colt always stamped numbers on their guns.
No statute of limitations involved. The gun is illegal right now. It's illegal for this gun to exist.
If the number is gone, as it appears, the gun is considered contraband.
Yes, it had a number. All Colts have serial numbers no matter when they were made. Colt always stamped numbers on their guns.
No statute of limitations involved. The gun is illegal right now. It's illegal for this gun to exist.
If the number is gone, as it appears, the gun is considered contraband.
Leedavisone
Member
Picture of the REO
Here are a few shots of the 1934 REO Flying Cloud, plus one of my 1925 REO Speedwagon. The Speedwagon was used by a Nebraska farmer to haul hogs to Omaha, but I think I shall restore it as a Police paddy wagon... they used 1925's for that in Winnepeg, Philadelphia and Baltimore. Lee Davis
Here are a few shots of the 1934 REO Flying Cloud, plus one of my 1925 REO Speedwagon. The Speedwagon was used by a Nebraska farmer to haul hogs to Omaha, but I think I shall restore it as a Police paddy wagon... they used 1925's for that in Winnepeg, Philadelphia and Baltimore. Lee Davis
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ScottsGT
Member
Man, those are awsome! I used to work in a shop with old cars like that when I was a teenager learning bodywork. Sure wish I could enjoy that kind of stuff now. All I have is an old '66 Mustang GT Fastback in my garage collecting dust....
XD Fan
Member
Great Post Leedavisone!
I have really enjoy this discussion. Just what we all need.. more cool cars and awesome old guns!
I have really enjoy this discussion. Just what we all need.. more cool cars and awesome old guns!
dk-corriveau
Member
Leedavisone,
Great find and great pictures...but I have to say that you have some expensive, yet very cool, hobbies!
Great find and great pictures...but I have to say that you have some expensive, yet very cool, hobbies!
Leedavisone
Member
Thanks...
My hobbies, and my work are not really expensive, for it is my own sweat that is put into them, and really, I need a break. I have been with the same wife (who hates cars and guns) for 33 years... but we are splitting easily in a few weeks. All I have to do is give her 80% (but that doesn't include the shop with all my cars!). I don't care about the money... all I want is my small bit of land and my cars and guns. I don't need advice on cars and guns... just on women. But, I suspect that any advice I could get would be water over the dam. I have learned the hard way.
Now, I have a daughter (14 1/2), and she has been eyeing my '35 Ford Coupe (she is a smart gal, and goes after the best). I told her to pick a car that she would like to drive as a first car... anything. If it is old, we can buy a decent one and restore it together (I have taught her how to rebuild a few engines, and she is an ace welder)... After a few weeks, she announced the right car for her: a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback. Bullitt's car. Whew! I started pricing them on Ebay, and I think I am in trouble. I shall try to pass the '35 Ford coupe off on her for now.
Back to guns... I want to get a 1911, and I have seen the Springfield Armory Mil-spec... Any thoughts? Also, anyone have a good , cheap, 1967?
Lee Davis
My hobbies, and my work are not really expensive, for it is my own sweat that is put into them, and really, I need a break. I have been with the same wife (who hates cars and guns) for 33 years... but we are splitting easily in a few weeks. All I have to do is give her 80% (but that doesn't include the shop with all my cars!). I don't care about the money... all I want is my small bit of land and my cars and guns. I don't need advice on cars and guns... just on women. But, I suspect that any advice I could get would be water over the dam. I have learned the hard way.
Now, I have a daughter (14 1/2), and she has been eyeing my '35 Ford Coupe (she is a smart gal, and goes after the best). I told her to pick a car that she would like to drive as a first car... anything. If it is old, we can buy a decent one and restore it together (I have taught her how to rebuild a few engines, and she is an ace welder)... After a few weeks, she announced the right car for her: a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback. Bullitt's car. Whew! I started pricing them on Ebay, and I think I am in trouble. I shall try to pass the '35 Ford coupe off on her for now.
Back to guns... I want to get a 1911, and I have seen the Springfield Armory Mil-spec... Any thoughts? Also, anyone have a good , cheap, 1967?
Lee Davis
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george29
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- 1,670
Another place that knows their stuff is Los Rancho's Gun Shop on 4th street past Osuna. Both Jerry and Ivan are experts and old timers, never heard anything bad about Ron Peterson except that I dislike the place because it is run like a used-car lot, too many sales people that come and go. Ron personally is probably very knowledgeable, my experiences are with Jerry & Ivan at Los Rancho's.
I found a 1911 that had the numbers etched off, this was in Phx in 1982 so things might have changed since then. Took it to the local ATF (they weren't known to me as storm troopers back then). The ATF agent sent the gun to their lab trying to raise the numbers and were only partially successful. After about a month, I got my gun back with new numbers punched in with a cold chisel (so much for collectors value). I guess they were trying to link a case with the gun and that's why it took so long to get back. Anyway, if you value the historic and collectors value, don't report your find w/o first consulting a lawyer, as it may very well get the same treatment my grandad's 1911 got (from well meaning people). I doubt very much Sheriff White is gonna really give a rat's @$$ that there is one antique revolver running around his county. Just keep it wiped from your prints and keep it locked up.
P.S My wife took 100% and tried to have me locked up, so keeping 20% ain't too shabby.
I found a 1911 that had the numbers etched off, this was in Phx in 1982 so things might have changed since then. Took it to the local ATF (they weren't known to me as storm troopers back then). The ATF agent sent the gun to their lab trying to raise the numbers and were only partially successful. After about a month, I got my gun back with new numbers punched in with a cold chisel (so much for collectors value). I guess they were trying to link a case with the gun and that's why it took so long to get back. Anyway, if you value the historic and collectors value, don't report your find w/o first consulting a lawyer, as it may very well get the same treatment my grandad's 1911 got (from well meaning people). I doubt very much Sheriff White is gonna really give a rat's @$$ that there is one antique revolver running around his county. Just keep it wiped from your prints and keep it locked up.
P.S My wife took 100% and tried to have me locked up, so keeping 20% ain't too shabby.
Dang,nice find ,long as it dosent cost you 20,be carefull who you show it to ,im not sure what the laws are in your state but id find out,if the car and gun were left together like that you never know ,could be someones stick up car and they ditched it there with the gun after a shooting etc,Next thing id do is look in the trunk for hostages ,another gun or all the money lol.I really would look in the trunk .
Citroen
Member
Very Interesting Thread!
Interesting to see that old cars and guns seem to attract the nicest people! My first job was as an "apprentice mechanic" at R & W Studebaker in Fayetteville, NC. At age 15 I loved it!!! And liked Studebakers too.
When I bought my 1955 Citroen (our weekend driver) I found, under the back seat, a baseball trading card that I thought would be quite valuable - the car had been in storage since 1982 so the card was at least that old - according to a shop that trades in baseball cards the value was ...... $5.00. So much for getting rich and starting a car collection.
I am sure that Lee has found his govt model 1911 by now but if not, there are more to select from now than ever before. And, as I am sure he knows, the old car hobby has moved into the high tech world with reproduction parts of everything - even all steel bodies for 1932 Fords.
Unfortunately my work interferes with my hobbies - so I only get to the range once a week, reload maybe 200 rounds each weekend and spend too much time restoring (body off) an old Avenger kit car (looks like a Ford GT 40) which is almost done.
Thanks for a very entertaining thread.
John
Charlotte, NC
Interesting to see that old cars and guns seem to attract the nicest people! My first job was as an "apprentice mechanic" at R & W Studebaker in Fayetteville, NC. At age 15 I loved it!!! And liked Studebakers too.
When I bought my 1955 Citroen (our weekend driver) I found, under the back seat, a baseball trading card that I thought would be quite valuable - the car had been in storage since 1982 so the card was at least that old - according to a shop that trades in baseball cards the value was ...... $5.00. So much for getting rich and starting a car collection.
I am sure that Lee has found his govt model 1911 by now but if not, there are more to select from now than ever before. And, as I am sure he knows, the old car hobby has moved into the high tech world with reproduction parts of everything - even all steel bodies for 1932 Fords.
Unfortunately my work interferes with my hobbies - so I only get to the range once a week, reload maybe 200 rounds each weekend and spend too much time restoring (body off) an old Avenger kit car (looks like a Ford GT 40) which is almost done.
Thanks for a very entertaining thread.
John
Charlotte, NC
Bones11b
Member
Great thread, nice way to start my day. By the way I used to buy cars at auction in NYC. They do not search those cars almost atall unless they were used in a crime. There are thousands of cars being auctioned all the time in NYC with an inspection period the day before. Lets just say as a teenager wandering around a huge parking lot with very little supervision and digging thru trunks of cars no one wanted to claim from police impound you find lots of interesting things. As for the wife I've been divorced three times and am madly in love and engaged to be married. Screw the money, keep living.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Very interesting discussion. I don't know how I missed it the first time around. A couple of points:
1) Not only does the law make it illegal to possess a firearm with the serial number removed or obscured, the law also makes the presumption that the possessor is the party who did the removal. Making it a neat double whammy for someone who obtained such a specimen completely innocently.
2) The BATFE does indeed have a program for recovering serial numbers if they can be recovered, and assigning a replacement number if the original cannot be recovered. Given the potential implications of owning a firearm whose serial number has been removed, I would set aside my disdain for the BATFE and go through the steps to legalize the gun.
1) Not only does the law make it illegal to possess a firearm with the serial number removed or obscured, the law also makes the presumption that the possessor is the party who did the removal. Making it a neat double whammy for someone who obtained such a specimen completely innocently.
2) The BATFE does indeed have a program for recovering serial numbers if they can be recovered, and assigning a replacement number if the original cannot be recovered. Given the potential implications of owning a firearm whose serial number has been removed, I would set aside my disdain for the BATFE and go through the steps to legalize the gun.
That's cool....
I bought a 1957 Chevy 2dr 210 in 2000 and all I found was a sheet of acid, about two ounces of pot and assorted pills. Bought it from the family of a kid that was in rehab. I was told to be careful when digging around in it. They sold it as punishment.
Anyhow now I am building a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger.
I bought a 1957 Chevy 2dr 210 in 2000 and all I found was a sheet of acid, about two ounces of pot and assorted pills. Bought it from the family of a kid that was in rehab. I was told to be careful when digging around in it. They sold it as punishment.
Anyhow now I am building a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger.
iiibdsiil
Member
Hemidart, you had a good weekend then huh? 
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