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alan

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Posted on Mon, Dec. 01, 2003

Supreme Court sidesteps politically charged gun rights case
GINA HOLLAND
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court disappointed gun owner groups Monday, refusing to consider whether the Constitution guarantees people a personal right to own a gun.

The court has never said if the right to "keep and bear arms" applies to individuals.

Although the Bush administration has endorsed individual gun-ownership rights, it did not encourage the justices to resolve the issue in this case involving a challenge of California laws banning high-powered weapons.

Many other groups wanted the court to take the politically charged case, including the National Rife Association, the Pink Pistols, a group of gay and lesbian gun owners; the Second Amendment Sisters; Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws; and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

"Citizens need the Second Amendment for protection of their families, homes and businesses," lawyer Gary Gorski of Fair Oaks, Calif., wrote in the appeal filed on behalf of his rugby teammates and friends.

The challengers included a police SWAT officer, a Purple Heart recipient, a former Marine sniper, a parole officer, a stockbroker and others with varied political views.

Timothy Rieger, California's deputy attorney general, said the case involved regulations on "rapid-fire rifles and pistols that have been used on California's school grounds to kill children."

The Second Amendment says, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the amendment's intent was to protect gun rights of militias, not individuals. A more conservative appeals court in New Orleans has ruled that individuals have a constitutional right to guns.

Justices refused without comment to review the 9th Circuit decision.

One 9th Circuit judge, Alex Kozinski, said the panel was off-base and its "labored effort to smother the Second Amendment by sheer body weight has all the grace of a sumo wrestler trying to kill a rattlesnake by sitting on it - and is just as likely to succeed." He and some other judges had wanted to reverse the decision.

The decision was written by Judge Stephen Reinhardt, who said the Supreme Court's guidance on the meaning of the right to bear arms was "not entirely illuminating."

In 2002, the Bush administration told the Supreme Court in another case that it believed the Constitution protects an individual's right to possess guns. The announcement reversed the government's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment. Even then, Justice Department lawyers said the high court need not test the principle.

Gorski said he was surprised by the court's action Monday. "I guess the Supreme Court thinks its acceptable to deprive 20 percent of the people of a major constitutional right," he said.

Mathew Nosanchuk, an attorney for the pro-gun control Violence Policy Center, said that the California law is a model for legislation pending in Congress, to renew and strengthen the 1994 federal assault weapons ban.

The high court's last major gun case was in 1939, when justices upheld a federal law prohibiting the interstate transport of sawed-off shotguns.

Daniel Schmutter of Paramus, N.J., representing Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, had told the justices in a filing that they should decide "once and for all" what protections gun owners have.

The case is Silveira v. Lockyer, 03-51.

ON THE NET

Supreme Court: http://www.supremecourtus.gov/

9th Circuit: http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov

Posters Question:

It was my understanding that USSC had granted "cert." in this case, meaning that it had agreed to hear arguments. Is that incorrect, and if it is, where to now, or do we wait for that endlessly elusive "better case", while the machinations of the anti gun lobby continue unabatted?
 
It was my understanding that USSC had granted "cert." in this case, meaning that it had agreed to hear arguments. Is that incorrect, and if it is, where to now, or do we wait for that endlessly elusive "better case", while the machinations of the anti gun lobby continue unabatted?
I pulled up the case, and yes, they denied a writ of certiorari, which officially means nothing- they don't rule on the merits either way.

Lexis's list of case law on the 2nd Amendment is pretty sad, btw. I never knew it was this bad:
Right of bearing arms for lawful purpose is not right granted by Constitution, and Second Amendment only means that such right shall not be infringed by Congress. United States v Cruikshank (1876) 92 US 542, 92 Otto 542, 23 L Ed 588; Cases v United States (1942, CA1 Puerto Rico) 131 F2d 916, cert den (1943) 319 US 770, 87 L Ed 1718, 63 S Ct 1431, reh den (1945) 324 US 889, 89 L Ed 1437, 65 S Ct 1010.
Second Amendment was designed to foster well-regulated militia as necessary to security of free state. Cases v United States (1942, CA1 Puerto Rico) 131 F2d 916, cert den (1943) 319 US 770, 87 L Ed 1718, 63 S Ct 1431, reh den (1945) 324 US 889, 89 L Ed 1437, 65 S Ct 1010.
Right to keep and bear arms is not right given by United States Constitution. Eckert v Philadelphia (1973, CA3 Pa) 477 F2d 610, cert den (1973) 414 US 839, 38 L Ed 2d 74, 94 S Ct 89 and cert den (1973) 414 US 843, 38 L Ed 2d 81, 94 S Ct 104.
Second Amendment does not apply to states and does not confer absolute individual right to bear any type of firearm; rather, Second Amendment only confers collective right of keeping and bearing arms which must bear reasonable relationship to preservation or efficiency or well-regulated militia. Love v Pepersack (1995, CA4 Md) 47 F3d 120, cert den (1995, US) 133 L Ed 2d 27, 116 S Ct 64.
Private citizen did not have standing to bring Second Amendment challenge against federal statutes which criminalized receipt or possession of certain firearms. United States v Mack (1999, CA9 Cal) 164 F3d 467, 99 Daily Journal DAR 390.
Second Amendment preserves collective right to bear arms and does not create individual right to possess firearms. United States v Napier (2000, CA6 Ky) 233 F3d 394, 2000 FED App 397P.
Right to bear arms under Second Amendment is not absolute right, since constitutional protection extends only to situations bearing some "reasonable relationship" to preservation or efficiency of well regulated militia; statute prohibiting possession or transportation of firearm by convicted felon is not overbroad because it brings within its protection those convicted of non-violent as well as violent crimes. State v Rupp (1979, Iowa) 282 NW2d 125.
Second Amendment is to be read as assurance that national government will not interfere with state militia; apart from such interference, Congress is not inhibited by Second Amendment from regulating firearms by exercise of its interstate commerce or other powers. Commonwealth v Davis (1976) 369 Mass 886, 343 NE2d 847.
Common-law crime of going armed with unusual and dangerous weapons to terror of people is not unconstitutional as abridgement of right to bear arms, as that right is subject to regulation for public welfare. State v Dawson (1968) 272 NC 535, 159 SE2d 1.
Second Amendment is limitation only upon power of Congress and national government, and not upon that of state. Presser v Illinois (1886) 116 US 252, 29 L Ed 615, 6 S Ct 580; In re Application of Rameriz (1924) 193 Cal 633, 226 P 914, 34 ALR 51; Massantonio v People (1925) 77 Colo 392, 236 P 1019.
Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms applies only to right of state to maintain militia and not to individual's right to bear arms. Stevens v United States (1971, CA6 Ky) 440 F2d 144.
Second Amendment guarantees collective rather than individual right; fact that defendant, in common with all adult residents and citizens of state, was subject to enrollment in state militia conferred upon him no right to possess submachinegun; defendant had no private right to keep and bear arms, under Second Amendment, which would bar his prosecution and conviction for violating 26 USCS § 5861(d). United States v Warin (1976, CA6 Ohio) 530 F2d 103, 37 ALR Fed 687, cert den (1976) 426 US 948, 49 L Ed 2d 1185, 96 S Ct 3168.
Village ordinance prohibiting possession of handguns is not unconstitutional since Second Amendment does not apply to states, and since possession of handguns by individuals is not part of right to keep and bear arms. Quilici v Morton Grove (1982, CA7 Ill) 695 F2d 261, cert den (1983) 464 US 863, 78 L Ed 2d 170, 104 S Ct 194.
Second Amendment does not protect individual possession of military weapons. United States v Hale (1992, CA8 Ark) 978 F2d 1016, 36 Fed Rules Evid Serv 1034, reh den (1992, CA8) 1992 US App LEXIS 30741 and cert den (1993) 507 US 997, 123 L Ed 2d 174, 113 S Ct 1614.
Individual whose application to purchase handgun was denied has not identified how her possession of handgun would preserve or insure effectiveness of militia, and therefore she has not shown violation of Second Amendment. Love v Pepersack (1995, CA4 Md) 47 F3d 120, cert den (1995, US) 133 L Ed 2d 27, 116 S Ct 64.
And thats not nearly all of them.

Its completely amazing how the 2nd Amendment not only creates a contradictory interpretation of "right of the people" (I'm looking at you, ACLU), but how the 14th Amendment magically doesn't apply. It never ceases to be bewildering.
 
Sippenhaft:

I find myself amazed by another point, that being as follows.

How can it be that respecting every other instance where the term "the people" appears in The U.S. Constitution, it clearly refers to individuals, while with respect to it's use in The Second Amendment, it has some strange "collective" meaning. Of course, being just a retired Piping Designer, what the hell do I know?

Also, as to the 14th Amendment, which has been held to apply to the states as well as to the federal government in all things except firearms it seems. That too is a strange one.

I guess that my stated understanding is incorrect, perhaps I misread, or what I has read was simply wrong. Oh well.
 
Levinson's Embarrassing 2nd

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/embar.html

One to bookmark and read for those who don't already have this in their e-library.

Do you really expect any form of government agency to agree that their own actions might result in any form of tyranny which would cause the second to be a viable rule for THEM to live by?

That is, unless they had just fought a larger, stronger army from their own previous form of government who had disarmed the people and committed atrocities of various types.

Its been 200 years. Sweep it under the rug. Keep it there.

"Watch more TV people. Stay clueless. It seems to be working allright."

Mistrust the government? Why good god man, why bite the hand that feeds you?

"What are you little people griping about? The second article in the B.O.R.'s doesn't say what you think it says, if we say so, or if we say nothing at all."

"Let them eat cake."

And so it goes. Politico's and their appointees. Expect them to take care of themselves, first, last and everywhere in between. Its the nature of the beast.

Please pardon my ramblings.

Adios
 
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